Speaker 0 00:00:01 Unlock More to life with Adrienne Penoza Real Estate Investing podcast, where we broadcast interviews with successful real estate investors across North America to empower you on your journey to unlocking more to life with real estate investing. Now, now, here's your host, Adrian Penoza.
Speaker 1 00:00:25 Hey everyone, it's Adrian Penoza here with another episode number 57, how Time Flies with the More to Life Real Estate Investing podcast, where we try to help you get more to life and live your dreams through the power of real estate investing.
Speaker 1 00:00:44 Super excited. Today we have Mark and Kirsten joining us who both specialize in midterm Airbnb rentals. Uh, Kirsten started her career as a nurse while Mark was a, uh, cable TV installer, just run of the mill, normal, average. No Supermans here, uh, kind of people. Uh, while they both love their respective careers, they saw it after the freedom, obviously so many of us want is to be able to travel, spend more time with their families and loved ones. And of course, the caveat to it all, financial freedom. Uh, both Mark and Kirsten are now real estate investors who love to help other investors succeed with their goals. So much so that they co-authored a book, you, me, and Airbnb, where they outline the steps others need to take to run their own properties and achieve financial freedom. Mark and Kirsten, welcome to our show and it's great having you here. How are you guys doing today?
Speaker 2 00:01:59 We're doing good. Thanks for having us. Yeah, we're doing well, Adrian. Thanks.
Speaker 1 00:02:04 Yeah, so just before we started, for those of you who are watching it or, or driving in your car, Mark's got this like super long Zzz top Beard <laugh>, and I was telling Mark when I was a police officer, I was working undercover drugs and I used to have that big long bushy beard. So brings me back to my, my police days. But, um, yeah, thanks for joining us guys. Uh, pleasure to have you and we'll get right into it. Um, love your stories and love how essentially you were just, you're out, you know, normal, average people like I was essentially. Uh, so why don't we start with you just telling us your journey. How did it all start, where you came from and where you, where you are now?
Speaker 2 00:02:47 Yeah, for sure. Um, so I mean, yeah, we're, we're still early on in our journey compared to, uh, you know, a lot of investors that we work with or people we talk to. But we started, um, doing Airbnb, uh, just about 10 years ago, I guess. So we're, we're in Hamilton, Ontario, and um, yeah, we, we decided, hey, well, let's rent out our basement apartment, uh, in the house that we had, right? We got married, um, a little bit before that and we had a basement apartment. We rented it out long-term for a little while, uh, had, you know, a good tenant, bad tenant, eventually tried to, uh, do Airbnb or decided to do to try Airbnb. And, uh, it went well. And, um, you know, we weren't thinking of real estate. We didn't really seriously think about real estate as an investment or a, a processor, a part of her life until, you know, maybe three, four years ago really.
Speaker 2 00:03:41 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, we just knew, you know, that this worked. It made money. So eventually we bought a, a second house and um, yeah, made that into a duplex also in Hamilton and, and ran that as an Airbnb. And, uh, and kind of after we bought that, then we, I think we realized like there's kind of something to this whole real estate thing, right? It's not just, you know, we bought another place, so that's great, but like, maybe we can do more with this. So we decided to, um, to start a property management company and, uh, yeah, help other people, especially with short-term rentals. We do some midterm rentals as well, but short and, or sorry, we do some long term mm-hmm. <affirmative> as well. But, uh, short and midterm is really what we, uh, what we enjoy. And you know, initially it was, it was Kirsten who ran the Airbnbs, um, for, for many years mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:04:35 <affirmative> and like, you know, I was, the handyman had fixed stuff, but she really did it. And, but once we started, especially the property management, we really got serious about, um, being successful with short-term rentals and, and you know, approaching it, uh, with a lot of focus and, and, uh, and real estate as well with a lot of passion. So, um, yeah, right now we've, we've sold in Canada, we we're waiting on the pre-construction condo, but we are, um, we're looking at getting into the US market. So there's, there's a number of reasons for that, but, uh, you know, the main one is we know short-term rentals and, uh, we can do much better in the states, uh, in certain areas, uh, with short-term rentals in terms of cash flow, and, uh, we just feel it'd be easier to scale there as well. We're self-employed, have been self-employed for quite a while, and you kinda hit a roadblock with financing, right? Absolutely. In Canada, when you're self-employed, banks are not eager to, uh, to deal with you. So you deal with B lenders and, and that's fine, but even there, there's, there's limits. So, um, yeah, that's kind of where we're at. I dunno if you have anything to add there, darling.
Speaker 3 00:05:41 <laugh>. Um, yeah, I think kind of like what you were saying before, we, we don't have deep pockets. We we're not like these real estate, you know, geniuses. We started with our family home, we brought a primary home together, and even then, 10 years ago, mark said, I don't really care what we buy as long as it has, um, an in-law suite or like a basement apartment. So that was his only criteria. And I was like, oh, right, yeah, I guess that makes sense. Well, we can help pay the mortgage. Um, so that's kind of how we started with just a basement suite in, uh, our primary home, and it grew from there.
Speaker 1 00:06:21 So, so let's talk about, sorry to interrupt. Uh, you were, you said something that I was really, uh, intriguing for me and it grew from there. So it started with your own basement, grow from there where our guests, uh, for the audience, where are you guys at today with, with that business model and whatnot?
Speaker 2 00:06:43 So like the, the property management, like our own or, uh, for other people? Both. Both. <laugh>. Both. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So as I said, we've, uh, we own nothing in Ontario right now other than our primary home. Okay. And, you know, a pre-construction, uh, thing, but that's years away. So, um, yeah, our focus is really on the US market. So, um, you know, the other, the other side of it is managing for other people. So we've got just about a dozen or so Airbnbs that, uh, we manage, or short term rentals, I should say. We, we call 'em Airbnbs, but there's a lot more to it than just Airbnb. So short-term rentals that we manage plus some of the long-term stuff. But, um, yeah, we're growing that, that business and, you know, in my mind, I think we can probably get up to maybe 20 or so, uh, that we can handle ourselves while keeping our quality of life.
Speaker 2 00:07:38 Um, you know, we've made some choices in terms of quality of life, um, that would be different than maybe the typical business person or real estate investor. You know, usually you talk to someone in business and there's, you know, you gotta do that five year grind or maybe a 10 year grind where all you do is work and that's it, but you, you know, on the other end of that, you come out and, and you can be financially free and, uh, get to do what you want. But we've got a young family, we've got four young children at home. Wow, ok. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're committed church members as well. So there's a lot of work that goes into that, and we wanna spend time with our kids. So that's one of the things that real estate has enabled us to do. And the reason we can, you know, do a podcast in the middle of the day at home, right?
Speaker 2 00:08:26 Um, is, is because of real estate. So, you know, we're not at that spot where we're free yet, and we're working our way towards that, but it's sort of on the terms that we want, right? We don't wanna never see our children, so we're able to spell spend time with them. Um, so yeah, so that's kinda kinda where we're at right now. And, you know, do we grow this business a lot bigger in higher employees, maybe at some point. Um, but yeah, I think our focus is gonna be on, uh, on growing the US investment. So I'm flying down there next week to get started and, uh, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 00:09:02 Nice. So I do have some questions a little bit later in the show, uh, touching upon, uh, the US market and, um, your thoughts upon that. Sticking to, um, I guess this train of thought, um, I, I don't personally have a, any Airbnbs, um, all of my properties and units are, you know, your typical one year lease agreement, um, governed by the landlord tenant board and everything like that. Um, let's talk numbers, I guess. Um, how much more, uh, you know, for example, uh, you know, some of my basement units that I rent out, um, depending on it, but let's say a one bedroom basement apartment right now, um, depending on location and size, but let's call it 1400 a month. Okay. Um, let's talk numbers as far as what you see in the Airbnb, or let's call it short term rental world, uh, that could be much more lucrative, for example, uh, per investors to transition maybe from your standard one year leases to going to your platform of the short term rentals. How do the numbers look like that?
Speaker 2 00:10:29 Yeah, so, um, so there's, there's two things we usually look at. And if we're doing a, if we're just starting to deal with a client, we'll run a full report, so value of the home, uh, so that we can kind of determine cap rates and things like that. Uh, but then we look at long-term rent, short-term rent, mid-term rent. And so midterm rent, typically you would see around a 50% premium to long-term rent. So it's not huge numbers. Um, but if you were to do, uh, like a three year comparison, I've done this for one of our properties. Um, the advantage with midterm, even though you're not making it like you're still making decent money, um, but not the short-term numbers, is that every six months or every year you get to up the rent to whatever market rent is plus that 50%. So, you know, typically long term we see tenants sticking around for three years, right?
Speaker 2 00:11:22 Um, you know, you, you don't have that with shorter midterm. So the real secret sauce of short and midterm rentals is that ability to stay relevant to market rent. So when market rent goes up and it's, it's gone up rapidly in less few years, you can stay on top of that. So the, the numbers over three years are pretty significant. So that's midterm about a 50% premium, you know, and that's, that's just a, a rough number. And then for short term, we would look to, you know, 70 to a hundred percent premium over long-term rent. Uh, now that's specific to sort of the, the greater Hamilton area. And, you know, even you could say Ontario, I guess when you look at, uh, the US market, for example, now you're talking for, for mid-term rentals, you can be at least a hundred percent, uh, premium on top of long term. And then depending on the type of thing, you have like a hundred to 400%, uh, so like two to four x, uh, regular rent on short term rentals, which is why we want to get down there, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:12:27 Wow. Yeah. Those numbers are incredible compared to here. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:12:31 But keep in, keep in mind too, it's not passive, uh, income doing the, especially the short term rental, it's a lot of work. Yeah. So you, you kind of have to know that going into it, that yes, I can make more money, but I am also going to work for it. Um, just with, well, you gotta furnish the place, right? So there's a, there's costs up front, you are paying all the utilities, um, and then there's the communication with your guests and potential guests and trying to manage a calendar and troubleshooting if the team maybe doesn't work or those kind of things. And then the cleaning and the turnover. So it is work. Um, but yeah, it can be worth it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:08 Yeah. And that's why I said, you know, we're sort of, or in my mind anyways, targeting like 20 or so units. Like that's a ton of work, right? The equivalent, you could probably have, you know, I don't know, 50 to 80 long-term rentals for probably the same amount of work that it would take to manage them. So, um, yeah, as Kirsten said, it is definitely not passive <laugh>, but the, you know, comes there. So you have an option of hiring someone, uh, to manage the place for you. And, you know, you're gonna pay anywhere from 15 to 30% probably of gross, uh, revenue to that manager, depending on where you are. Right. A little bit less in Canada, uh, a little bit more in the states usually.
Speaker 1 00:13:49 That was actually my next question. So for your services, if you're managing my short-term mid-term rental, what are your fees?
Speaker 2 00:13:59 Yeah, so we're 15%. Um, that is a little low we feel for the industry, but, um, when, again, when we run those numbers, you know, I, I'll run it at like a 20% management fee and we realize like it's just not feasible in this market right here and now. So we've, we've kind of dropped that. Um, yeah. So that's what we charge. But yeah, a typical fee in like the states, especially vacation markets, you would see more like a 25%, um, um, uh, rental rate. And there's also co-hosting we do, and that's at a, at a lesser rate. So that would be like, we do all the marketing, all the virtual management of the property, guest communication, but nothing hands on. Got it. And, and you can, you know, that's, that would be normally that be honest. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:14:48 Okay. So, um, that's really interesting. Let's talk what classifies, cuz again, I'm, I'm pretty not knowledgeable in this space you have short term. So let's call that your typical one, two night, three night stay, whatever the case may be. What would constitute a midterm uh, rental program per se? Is it like a minimum one month, two months, six months? How does that work?
Speaker 3 00:15:20 We typically say anything that's over a month is over a month, under a year is, is a midterm stay.
Speaker 1 00:15:27 Okay. And your fees, whether it's, you know, your typical one night Airbnb, are they the same, whether it's short-term or midterm rentals?
Speaker 2 00:15:40 Yeah, we, um, so for, for most of our rentals, they're not, they're, they're hybrid models, right? So if you imagine for mid-term you're targeting, let's say two or three month stays mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it would be very rare that you get those stays perfectly aligned so that you would have four of them a year. Right. And like no days in between, it just, it, it doesn't work. Um, so when you have a gap in between, we'll typically try and fill that with short-term stays, you know, and depending on regulations, right? There's been a lot of crackdown on, on short term stays, so you have to Yes. Use some judgment there. But yeah, we, we found that, you know, the amount of work, um, is, it is less overall with midterm, but uh, when you look at, you know, you're still doing the same amount of marketing, uh, the tools that we use for like dynamic pricing and, and checking rankings and stuff, that all still is going on in the background. So, uh, we just keep it at one, uh, at one rate.
Speaker 1 00:16:40 Got it. No, that's fair. And are you seeing more for people out there listening, because I know they're, their heads are spinning now thinking about, Hmm, maybe I can do this in my, uh, in my duplex or whatnot. Um, are you seeing more, or I guess it's case by case, but are you seeing more short-term opportunities or are you seeing more and more lately mid-term opportunities with respect to guests? Or is it just really scattered across the board?
Speaker 3 00:17:14 Um, yeah. Well, as Mark mentioned, there has been regulations that the city of Hamilton has. Um, yeah, they've just passed those. So, um, technically you can't, short term, you can't run a short term rental out of an investment property. You can only do that out of your primary.
Speaker 1 00:17:32 Oh, okay. Yeah. I remember reading that.
Speaker 3 00:17:34 You live upstairs. So that is limiting a lot of investors. Um, and a lot of people are kind of making the switch from short term to midterm. Um, cuz if you do the midterm, you, you can get around that legislation. So anything longer than like 28 days
Speaker 1 00:17:51 Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 00:17:52 Not considered short term. So you could do that. You can still continue renting out a furnished place. Um, yeah, so I, I, yeah, like a lot of people are switching to that. And then I think too, with the increased, um, interest rates, a lot of, uh, investors are finding like, okay, I'm not really making enough money with my typical long-term rental income. I'm not covering all my costs. Um, I either have, I'm gonna have to sell the house, or I'm gonna have to come up with a, a different way to make a little bit more money. And, and the midterm is a way to do that,
Speaker 2 00:18:29 Right? Yeah. And that, that was one of the reasons we, we wrote the book as well. Um, you know, it's not a definitive real estate guide, but it was a little bit about our journey, but also just introducing the concept of midterm rentals, right? When we started writing the book there, nobody really was talking about them. And we thought we invented the term midterm rentals, right? <laugh>, until I heard it on a podcast, I'm like, Hey, how do you know that term? Right? Who do you know? But, uh, you know, it makes sense because you have short-term, long-term midterms in between. Um, but now it's, it's a fairly common, uh, term right. People, you know, have heard of it. Uh, usually. So, you know, not everybody does, and we're still explaining it to people, but now people understand it a little bit better that this is another option. So yeah, it's, it's growing. Um, there is a smaller market for midterm than there is for short term, that's for sure. And, but it's still one of the, uh, I think it accounts for almost 25% of Airbnb stays now, which is, uh, which is huge. Yeah. Right. So there's there's definitely a market for it.
Speaker 1 00:19:32 Yeah, for sure. Uh, so let's give, let's give the audience one example, but we, before we move on to the next, uh, question, um, let's talk about that, uh, basement apartment again. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> back to this basement apartment example. So I got a one bedroom basement apartment in Hamilton. Um, $1,400 a month plus hydro is what I typically get. Now I'm gonna flip over to the midterm rental scenario, that same basement apartment. What do you think I could get a month, let's say for a month's rental? Uh, what do you think I could generate? I, I can't remember your stats at what you said, but if I'm getting 14 a month, what would you say a one month stay would be on a midterm rental?
Speaker 2 00:20:27 Yeah. So we would again, target, you know, use that 50% premium as a rough target. And, uh, right now, keep in mind you're paying utilities and stuff, but yeah, we'd be looking at, you know, 21, 2200, uh, depending on, you know, where, how, what shape the apartment is in. Right, right. And amenities and nearby attractions. So something, you know, industrial North End is gonna be less than, uh, for example, a, you know, a nicer apartment on a walkout in, uh, Lancaster on the mountain. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. And, and keeping in mind again that, um, this is one of the things we've been talking to a lot of younger folks about is house hacking. You know, we never used to call it house hacking, but Yeah, yeah. Because of regulation. Um, you're not really supposed to short term rent out those apartments. If you're an investor, a lot of people are still doing it and it's kind of a wait and see attitude.
Speaker 2 00:21:22 But for people that have just bought a home, this is a fabulous opportunity because the city has now kind of decreased that pool of competitors or the people who are legally allowed to do this. So if you have that basement apartment, all of a sudden short-term rentals has become, uh, much more viable. And it's not just Hamilton, right? It is, most jurisdictions in Ontario now have similar regulations, not all, but most. Um, so, you know, it's, it's kind of squeezing investors, but for people who, who have a house much better opportunity, and, you know, this is what we did for many years, and our one bedroom basement apartment paid the mortgage.
Speaker 3 00:22:01 It was amazing. So when we first started, it's a, we're actually sitting in the apartment right now, the one bedroom, uh, basement apartment. It was nothing fancy. Um, the bathroom was outdated. We've since updated it, but it was, you know, kind of, eh, yeah. Um, a lot of the furniture that we bought was like secondhand or somebody donated a couch, for instance. So when we rented it out long term, and this was what, like eight? Yeah. Something years ago, I think it was $800 a month that was inclusive, that was including utilities. And we were like, through Airbnb, we were able to bump that up, uh, two, I think two grand a month. Wow. We had somebody staying there for like, I think it was three or four months they were here for work. Wow. And he paid two grand to stay in our pokey little one bedroom basement apartment.
Speaker 2 00:22:53 Yeah. And that was years ago, so, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 00:22:55 This is several years ago. Yeah. Um, so it was the little apartment that could, like, it just was amazing to me, um, how much revenue we could get from it.
Speaker 2 00:23:04 Wow.
Speaker 3 00:23:05 Yeah. But
Speaker 2 00:23:07 Yeah, question you'd be looking, you know, we would target probably 2100 a month, and this is average over the year, right. Your summer months are gonna be busier. You're your, um, winter is kind of the off season and midterm isn't as susceptible to that. But because Airbnb is such a big part of the market, you're still kind of comparing rates with other people mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, because a lot of people will allow longer stays or shorter stays. So you, you're still staying kind of competitive. So then for that same apartment, you'd be looking at around three grand or so, um, that I would target for short term rentals.
Speaker 1 00:23:45 Wow. That is good money. So you're, yeah. So most of, uh, I can relate to a lot of what you're saying too with pricing and stuff like that and, and digest that, given our portfolio, uh, and all our units predominantly is in the city of Hamilton, so I know it quite well. I know what market rents are and um, you know, the influx and rents that we've experienced in Hamilton alone is, has been incredible, thank God to offset, uh, obviously the interest rate hikes and stuff like that. Yeah. Um, so if I'm a client, again, getting back to your business, if I'm a client, um, and I just said, Hey Mark, I'd like to hire your services and whatnot, you are setup, you're setup to take on everything, right? From my marketing all the way to the cleaning and changing the sheets on the bed, so to speak.
Speaker 3 00:24:42 Yeah. We can kind of tailor to whatever our, it depends if they're, if they're local to us and Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:24:48 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:24:49 Um, so yeah, we have some clients that are completely hands off. They live at a country they want nothing to do with it. Um, and we go in there, I think we might have even furnished it for them. So we, we get the furniture, we set it up, hang the pictures, go to Ikea, get all the things Yeah. Cause we have lists, we know exactly what we need. Yeah. Uh, set it up. And then once it's physically set up, we're making online listings on Airbnb, but other platforms as well. Um, and then doing the dynamic pricing. And then we will, yeah, we chat with the guests, we manage the calendar and we have a group of cleaners that, that clean for us. So we schedule them in. Um, mark will do some of the maintenance if, if needed. Um, you know, go in there regularly to change furnace filters, change the batteries out of the smoke detectors. If there's a leaky faucet, he'll go in. Right. Um, for anything bigger, we, we would have to get an outside contractor, but we always do that in communication with the owner, so there's no surprises. Um, so yeah, it's pretty much we do everything. We're not just managing the listing, um, but out, like also doing the property management and maintenance.
Speaker 1 00:26:03 Beautiful. So a one stop shop when it comes to,
Speaker 3 00:26:07 It can be if that's what people want. Not everybody wants that. Some people are like, oh, you know, I, I kind of want to be involved in the process, right? So they, they wanna do the shopping and the decor, or they wanna man, like message the guests. So it really depends on what the client wants. And
Speaker 2 00:26:24 We, we work with people and we just try to be open and honest as well. Right. If you're some, we have some clients that are just looking at getting into short-term rentals, so we understand there's gonna be a short time that we're working with them maybe a year. And, you know, we'll co-host, they get in, they, they learn the business and then either the end, they're gonna gonna figure out like, I want to do this. And they'll cut us loose cuz they know what they're doing, which to me, that means we did our job and they've learned, or they'll be, uh, they'll realize how much work it is. And then, you know, we, we just carry on, uh, a as we're doing, but we've, we've been doing a lot of consulting as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, if we can help people, you know, we'll make a little bit of money at it, but we're passionate about helping people, uh, in real estate. And our expertise is short-term rentals. So if we can help people out, we'll, uh, we've been doing it for years. We just only started charging for it recently. <laugh>, that's
Speaker 3 00:27:16 Kind of how we started the business, is we, were, we, yeah. People kind of knew us as the Airbnb people. Oh, you, you need an Airbnb, ask Mark and Kirsten, or you, you want to set up an Airbnb, you shouldn't ask them. And yeah, I was getting a lot of phone call and emails and mark's like, maybe there's something to this <laugh>. Like maybe we have something to offer our people. Like we've, we've done it for a while now. Yeah. You don't realize it at first, but after a while you're like, okay, yeah, I, we do know what we're doing. Actually. We've, we've done it enough times that we, we do have something to offer. So, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:49 But I mean, if, you know, for people that are listening there, there's so many resources available online now that if you're serious about doing this, you can probably find most of what you need for free. Uh, there's a lot of coaches out there and we've, you know, kind of thought about putting out a coaching program. I don't think we will. Um, but a lot of people charging a lot of money for information that you can probably get for free if you listen to enough, you know, just digest enough, uh, content from different sources. Um, so we recommend that to people as well, right? Like, we're, we're here to make some money, but again, if we can help and just point people in the right direction, um, it's all out there. Same as regular real estate investing, right? Yeah. There's nothing like working with a mentor or someone experienced, but if you're willing to put in the work, you can find the information. Absolutely. It comes down to your network usually, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:28:41 Network is so important. It's so such a great important pre piece in this whole, uh, and, you know, this whole game of real estate investing mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but I also wanna pitch too guys that, um, I'm all about leverage. And for, for everybody listening, you know, you have small children, you have a busy lifestyle, a busy career. You're growing yourself in your career. Like if it was me, I, I learned the power of leverage a little bit late in the game. I wish I, I wish I, um, wasn't so frugal when I started. Um, because, you know, for 15%, um, I can go and carry on, you know, if I had, uh, short-term mid-term rentals on the go, um, for 15 points, I could just hear you go and I can focus on my next, second, third, fourth, fifth, uh, you know, investment opportunity and or focus on my career because I'm heavily in, you know, involved in that.
Speaker 1 00:29:51 Take it 15%, go ahead. I don't have to worry about, you know, going there and cleaning it, dealing with the, uh, the guests like you'd mentioned. Like for me it's a no-brainer. And, and believe me, for everybody listening, I, I learned the hard way cuz I was pretty cheap when I started too. And I, you know, I cut my own grass at all my rental properties for years before I finally outsourced it because I thought, you know, I can save 25, 30 bucks. But was I, what I wasn't thinking was, I'm gonna spend, you know, by the time I drive to Hamilton, cuz I'm not local, uh, by the time I drive to Hamilton, you factor in my time, my gas, then drive home the day shot, you know, to cut 10 lawns. Had I paid somebody 150 bucks to do it, I could have had that day to focus on a big thing. Yeah. Yeah. So leverage, that's a hard
Speaker 3 00:30:47 Lesson to learn I think for us too. That that's always a tough one, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:30:53 It's pill to swallow. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:30:54 Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:30:55 But once you yeah. Get over that mindset and if you are focusing on something else that you could leverage that time by hiring you guys to look after my, you know, midterm rental so I can focus on something bigger and better where the real money's at. Yeah. For my next investment. Like, and again,
Speaker 3 00:31:15 Yeah, we had to learn that just in our business too. Like the cleaning for instance, that's a huge part of short term and mid-term rentals. And I started cleaning all of those places on my own. And let me tell you, it didn't last very long.
Speaker 1 00:31:29 <laugh>, it's
Speaker 3 00:31:30 A lot of work just burnt out. It's a lot of work. And Mark was like, you need to hire somebody. And I was the same thing. Like, I don't wanna spend the money. Yeah. But if you don't do that, then you limit yourself to only having one or maybe two units.
Speaker 1 00:31:43 You can't grow,
Speaker 3 00:31:44 Right? You can't. So that, but it is hard to, to learn that I'm still
Speaker 2 00:31:48 Learning it. We, we do recommend if, if somebody's starting out, uh, especially in short-term rentals, like run it yourself for a while so you understand the process unit. And same with real estate. You know, if you buy your first, uh, investment property, manage it yourself as much. Like, unless you absolutely can't. And, and your time is worth more than that, but, um, yeah, you know what you're talking about, your time is worth more than 150 bucks a day, I'm sure. But in the beginning it may be worth just to get that education so you're not paying somebody else to, to understand like, yeah, this is what it takes to maintain a house. This is what it takes to run a short term rental. But you're right. Once you're, you start to scale, long as you are in the bus, now you have the expertise, you can uh, you, you kind of farm that out and increase your leverage.
Speaker 1 00:32:35 Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Um, alright, we're getting towards the end here. Uh, we've been at it, uh, just up 35 minutes now. So we have a couple questions left before I get into that. I just, uh, for our audience, um, a quick update on, uh, what I EPCs been up to lately. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I, like I mentioned, um, I guess a couple episodes ago, I really believe, um, now's the time for expansion mode. Um, and we're looking to buy as many, um, buildings as we can this year. Cause I think it's a great time to get deals at the end of the day. Um, I, I really do. And I think once this market turns and rates start to subside, maybe towards the end of 2023, uh, we're gonna really look like geniuses at the end of the year, so to speak, <laugh>. So that's, that's kind of where my mindsets out.
Speaker 1 00:33:33 And I, I am always the kind of guy proof, you know, put your money where your mouth is. And um, so we bought, uh, we firmed up and bought, uh, this month alone last week, a 14 unit, uh, apartment building in St. Catherine's off market. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and for those of you listening, if you're looking to invest in something possibly like this is an incredible opportunity we're bringing to our database. 14 units, sorry, my bad. 13 units. 13 units vacant. How many times do you see 13 units completely vacant? Not a soul in it comes with permits in hand. So the day we take possession, we're swinging hammers, um, completely off market. Exclusive to us. We, uh, lock this deal up, uh, looking for investors to come in on it if they're interested. But it's very, very rare to buy, uh, this size of a building completely vacant, not one tenant.
Speaker 1 00:34:40 So you don't have to have that lag. Um, which is super, super exciting. And um, so we're looking for investors on that one. If anybody listening's interested, reach out to me, I can give you some more. Uh, we got a slide deck prepared on it. I can send that out to you guys. Whoever's out there listening who's interested. And again, putting our money where our mouth is. We also bought a six unit apartment building, um, in downtown Hamilton, uh, last week as well. Um, five. But of the six units will be vacant when we take possession. Another great opportunity, um, to get started right away on our renovations, cuz everybody knows most of the time everything we buy needs, um, uh, renovations and, um, they're all distressed, which is what we love. So yeah, food for thought. I always say put your money where your mouth is and, and we're definitely doing that.
Speaker 1 00:35:38 So we just added 20 units to our portfolio, uh, just this month. Um, so we are putting our money where our mouth is, whoever wants to get, again, another off market deal, that six unit. So if you're looking for off market deals in Hamilton and looking to invest, um, reach out to me guys. I, I, we do have some other stuff coming up that still the infancy stages, so I don't wanna really put it out there yet. But yeah, reach out to me and I'll bring you up to speed on some other stuff we got on the go. So final questions before we depart. What is your why, why do you guys do what you do every day?
Speaker 2 00:36:22 Well, yeah, I guess our why, like, so I mentioned we're, uh, we're very involved with our church, right? We're Christian, and that kind of informs our, our worldview and how we do it. So we try to live at a gratitude. Um, so I, and excellence and gratitude I guess. So we're, we're happy. We're extremely blessed with what we have, um, spiritually and physically. And so we just try and show gratitude, uh, in our dealings with others and then just do everything very well. We're not doing it for ourselves. We're doing it, you know, we have a higher purpose. So when we work, um, it's not just for to make money for us, you know, to, for our retirement, but there's, there's sort of that higher purpose and that that sort of pervades all aspects of life. And it's, we, we lose track of that in the busy humdrum, um, day-to-day stuff. But, uh, yeah, I would say that's our why. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:37:15 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe a little bit more focus for me, like I was a nurse, um, working shift work and just with our family life it was just not working out and I didn't want to be the mom that dropped off her kids. And for some moms that's great and it works for some families, but for us, um, we just, yeah, that was, that was another why, just that we could be home with our kids. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:37:41 Awesome. Awesome. So obviously you're successful now with your business and it looks like you're rocking and rolling and off to a great start and gonna be expanding to the us, um, which is exciting in itself. Um, question, when you picture more to life, like our podcast more to life, when you picture more to life, what do you see?
Speaker 2 00:38:09 So I, I would see, um, I guess financial freedom or, you know, freedom in general, but the, the freedom to, to be able to do what we would like to with our family and to be able to help others in the way that we choose, right? Right. Now, if we talk about, you know, uh, helping somebody out or making a donation or whatever, cause that, you know, that's, that's important to us. Um, we have to budget that, right? We can't give, do everything to everybody, but eventually at some point we'd just like to be able to say like, if there's a need no problem, we can take care of it. Right? Um, so, and that's, that's heavy on the financial side, but it's also the freedom of, um, of time, I guess. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> where we can spend time on whatever, whatever we would like to do, whether that's here in a different country, um, and just be able to, to make sure their kids get the upbringing that we want them to have and, and the time with the parents that, uh, that we would like them to have as well.
Speaker 1 00:39:08 Amazing. Very, very genuine. Last, very, very last question. If you could give one piece of advice to people listening who are looking to get started and potentially leave their nine to five or just get in the game sort of speak, what would you tell 'em?
Speaker 3 00:39:34 Um, yeah, I think that was the reason why we wrote the book was for the novice investor, people who just think like, it's just outta my reach. I like, how, where do you come up with money for those kind of investments? And we certainly didn't have deep pockets. Um, we just leveraged our family home, so we were blessed to, to be able to purchase when we did. But we also did that with the, the, the, um, the in-law suite and used that to, um, to get that extra income and then we were able to buy, yeah, buy the second home and then leveraging the second home we were able to purchase the condo in um, Niagara Falls. And now we're thinking of going to the states and I mean, you would've told me that 10 years ago, I would've been like, no, this never happened. So you can do it, you can, it is feasible. You don't have to have deep pockets, you don't have to have like, you know, all the, the smarts. I mean, do educate yourself, um, but you can do it. People do it all the time. And so can you
Speaker 2 00:40:40 Yeah, just, just take, take that leap, do educate yourself, but then get uncomfortable. Yeah. Because that's what it comes down to, right? It's the fear of the unknown. Yeah. Yeah. You've never done it before. Um, you gotta, you gotta take action.
Speaker 1 00:40:55 Yeah. What do they say? You grow in, you don't grow when you're comfortable, you grow in that uncomfortable space or you, you know, you fail forward and you grow by failing forward and you're learning and you pick yourself up and you go again. But if you just stay in that space where I'm just, I'm content, I'm comfortable, I pay my bills every month and I watch Netflix all night and you know, stuff like that, that's great. There's nothing wrong with it, but you're never gonna grow. You're gonna have that lifestyle for the rest of your life. And if that's what you want, great. But a lot of us want more and that's why we take those, those, those steps to get more and to step outside of our comfort zone, right?
Speaker 2 00:41:43 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:41:44 Yeah. So awesome.
Speaker 2 00:41:46 You're doing something different. You have to do something different.
Speaker 1 00:41:48 Bingo, bingo, <laugh>. So for everybody out there that wants to get into this, wants to hire you, wants to do business with you, wants you to manage their short-term, mid-term, long-term rentals, how do they find you? How do they connect with you guys?
Speaker 3 00:42:06 Um, they can find us at our
[email protected]. J o y h i l l ca.
Speaker 2 00:42:13 Yeah, that's probably the best spot. We've got, you know, social media handles and all that stuff. But that's all linked on, uh, on Joy Hill. And uh, and I will say, you know, we're, we're always happy to talk and we're not always looking to like seal the deal, do business. If somebody just wants to find out about doing short term what, you know, if we can work with you, we will. Um, but if we can help you out, we'll do that as well.
Speaker 1 00:42:36 Yeah, and I, like I said, for me, uh, it, it's a no-brainer for 15%. It's a no-brainer and you guys deal with it all. Where do I rate the check, so to speak, <laugh> for me, but that's just me and everything I've learned in the past decade in this game. So anyways guys, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on The More to Life and wish a continued success here and in the States and um, maybe I'll see you in Hamilton because that's like, we got over 400 units now, um, out there, so I'm sure maybe we'll cross paths and yeah. Each other's brains.
Speaker 2 00:43:18 Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having us on and uh, all the best to you as well, Adrian.
Speaker 1 00:43:23 Cheers guys.
