Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Unlock More to life with Adrienne Penoza Real Estate Investing podcast, where we broadcast interviews with successful real estate investors across North America to empower you on your journey to unlocking more to life with real estate investing. Now, now, here's your host, Adrian Penoza.
Speaker 1 00:00:25 Hey everyone, it's Adrian Penoza here with another episode of the More To Life Real Estate Investing podcast, where we help you get more to life through the power of real estate investing. If you want to start living your dreams, have time and financial freedom, then real estate investing is the root for you, and I'm happy to have here today. A very, very special guest. One, a personal friend actually, um, Dalia Barson. Dalia is the founder of Streetwise Wealth, a real estate wealth advisory firm, as well as Streetwise Mortgages, a multi award-winning brokerage specializing in income property financing. Streetwise mortgages is Canada's number one. I said that number one small market broker is ranked by Canadian mortgage professionals. Dalia is also the best selling author of Canadian Investor Financing Seven Secrets to Getting All the Money You Want, a columnist for Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and has been recognized as a global 100 mortgage professional. But get this one guys, Dalia has now recently been recognized and award-winning as the number one mortgage broker in Canada as well as Ontario. So top of the top, to say the least, Dalia and her team to date have funded over 1.5 billion of mortgages. So I think that speaks volumes to not only Dalia and her team's experience and the kind of service they deliver in this industry. Dalia, welcome to the More to Life Real Estate Investing podcast.
Speaker 2 00:02:21 Adrian, thank you so much for this generous introduction. I'm excited to be here today.
Speaker 1 00:02:26 Yeah, awesome. It's, it's, it's a, it's a pleasure and honor of mine. Obviously, we, we've become, uh, friends over the last several years and done some business together and one of, if not probably the, uh, top professionals I've had kudos to you on the mor to life. So it's a pleasure to have you as well. I guess, um, Dalia, like we always start with on our podcast, um, for the audience that, uh, whether they do or don't know you, tell us how, you know, this journey started with you in this world of mortgages and working with investors and real estate and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 00:03:11 It started while I was working for one of Canada's, uh, top banks. I come from the banking world and I operated or worked there for 15 years, and I actually started in technology, uh, as a database administrator. My background is computer science, and over time I got intrigued by the business world, and over the 15 years, I transitioned over to the business side and did, uh, my MBA in finance. So within the banking environment, I, you know, uh, worked in different capacities in personal and commercial banking, in wealth management, in, uh, strategy, marketing technology. So, um, that gave me phenomenal exposure to the business world. And at some point, I got to a point that was around 2008, 2019 when the market crashed and I was in wealth management at the time, uh, supporting, uh, financial planners. I personally lost money in the stock market.
Speaker 2 00:04:09 My husband and I, we actually lost a significant amount of our portfolio. And, uh, I was in that industry and I felt kind of hopeless. I felt that I had no control over where the market was heading, and all I was hearing is stick around, it'll correct, you know, stay in it for the long run, don't sell, which I understand the rationale behind, but that got me thinking about real estate and other alternative ways to manage our money. And that's when I, you know, picked up the traditional rich dad bda and started reading about real estate and started to go to investment clubs and bought my first investment property back then while I was working as an employee was in Barry. Um, then over time I bought more properties and more properties and I thought, okay, you know what? This is actually working. You know, I, it's not as scary as some people told me. And, uh, it became addictive.
Speaker 2 00:05:09 Addictive. And then I, I got to a point in my career where I got to a senior level at the bank, but I was not feeling the satisfaction anymore. I had a young kid at home, I, uh, wanted to be around my son, and, um, I felt I was just running on the treadmill. And, uh, that's when I thought, okay, I should get and, uh, get out and open up my own business. And real estate, of course, was top of mind. So I thought, okay, do I go in as a realtor? Do I go in as a mortgage broker? Do I go in as a full-time real estate investor? And I chose mortgage brokering because it builds on my finance experience. But the also, because also I got intrigued by financing income properties, uh, as I was holding them myself. And I saw an opportunity to combine wealth planning with mortgage brokering.
Speaker 2 00:06:05 And that's basically how I started in the industry by offering such a service which helped investors more actively plan their financing versus reactively only when they have a deal. And people would come to me and say, I got a tough deal. I was told I can no longer buy more. And I would look at it and I would untangle financing and open up capacity and get them three, four, or five. And, uh, that's how it all started. People started to say, oh, wow, you, you actually know what you're doing and you've provided great service. I'm gonna tell my friend, I'm gonna tell my JB partners. And it, it continued from there.
Speaker 1 00:06:46 Amazing. So you obviously, and I love this part about you and you're, you're the epitome of having, um, an abundance mindset as opposed to scarcity and, um, you stepped outside your comfort zone, you left your corporate position, call it, um, within the bank, um, and you decided to go into business for yourself ultimately. So I know personally, obviously from where you are today and how big you've grown today as far as your, your company goes, and that comes with that abundance mindset, I think, too. Can we talk about the growth of your, your company from obviously starting, I guess one day you were all on your own, you know? Yes. When you first left and started business on your own and that journey, how, like the, the exponential growth you've experienced since you've taken that leap of faith?
Speaker 2 00:07:52 Yes. Happy to share. So as you said at the beginning, I was a one person shop doing it all. Um, I was driving all over the place. I was, um, doing the sales, uh, designing the product, uh, developing the relationships, cleaning the toilets. Although there were no toilets, I was working from home. Uh, but you get it, right? I was doing it. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and, um, my philosophy has always been focus on delivering value and delivering, um, service and value. And that has paid well off for me because what it did is it does, it did, um, accelerate in a way the, uh, top line revenue for the business. And by getting revenue through the door, um, you can then say, okay, what am I doing today as an operator of this business? Uh, where I, where can I focus my time better? Where can I use some of that revenue to hire somebody to help me focus my time on things that matter most?
Speaker 2 00:08:56 So over time, what I did is keeping that top line revenue, growing, not taking my eyes off that by delivering value and service, it allowed me to hire, support, hire other team members. And I've always started with, where am I wasting, not wasting, where am I spending time today that I can actually train someone else to help me? So initially it was administration, it was paperwork, and then it gradually it became, you know, um, fulfillment on deals and then underwriting deals. And then, um, d n aing myself, which is basically how do I bring others to the team that use my financing methodology, make sure that they're joining a culture, they're growing here, they're actually delivering the same way I was delivering, uh, when I was a one person shop. So that is the transition to, to where I am right now. And also part of the growth is, uh, also figuring out continuously how can we improve? How can we utilize, utilize technology? Where can we enhance our processes? Because I believe that nothing fails as success, and sometimes we can get comfortable. Uh, so process improvements, finding efficient, better ways of doing things combined with what I've just described is what got us here.
Speaker 1 00:10:17 Amazing. So if you don't mind sharing, um, Dalia started with just herself and how, what size of team do you have now?
Speaker 2 00:10:27 Uh, right now we are 15 full-time altogether. I don't have a brokerage where I have agents building their business. It's essentially, this is my team and they are trained to deliver on the way I used to advise client and still advise clients and the way I, uh, fund income properties. I do have a myth methodology that I've developed over time. So that's what my team does right now.
Speaker 1 00:10:56 And I think that, you know, for everybody listening, I think that really speaks volumes with respect to, you know, like I, when I introduced you, uh, 1.5 billion of mortgages to date, that's a lot of trust and work that your clients put in you and your team to get those deals funded. Because at the end of the day, if someone can make it happen, you and your team can make it happen. Um, and hence the growth of, of 15, uh, a team of 15 people with you, which is absolutely amazing in itself. Um, let's transition the discussion a little bit to obviously, you know, your, your team is investor focused, um, which is really amazing, um, and is why we've worked together in the past too, on some bigger, um, multi-family deals. Let's talk about though, the guy that's so worried to take that first step and get that first multi-family mortgage. And then I wanna flip it and I wanna ask you about the guy who wants to buy, he's the seasoned guy, and now he wants to buy his first 40 unit apartment building. Yes. So let's start with the guy who we've, we've nurtured and, you know, he's still on the fence and scared to get this extra debt, you know, in his life and buy that first property. What would your thought or advice be to him?
Speaker 2 00:12:41 It's, it's very normal to have that overwhelm and fear just observing investors who are transitioning from residential to multi-family for the first time. They look at it as this bigger thing, and it's complicated and overwhelming. So it is normal to feel scared. However, it is important to recognize that it is about the team you lean on to help you make that transition and understanding what it's all about that will help break down the fear. So the reality of multifamily, and I'm not suggesting anyone jumps into a 40 units apartment building all of a sudden, no, you may wanna start small, 6, 5, 8, 12, something you're comfortable with. The reality is the following financing is actually easier than you personally qualifying for a residential property because it is like a business. You're essentially running a business and that business qualifies for a month two. Um, yes, it is, there are additional zeros.
Speaker 2 00:13:51 However, from a risk management standpoint, it's actually easier to manage risk because you can have a property manager, you can have, um, you can hire help to help you manage the risk versus you trying to do it on your own. Um, and then it's really about this. It's, it's essentially the same thing. You've got tenant clients, you're gonna renovate, you're gonna renovate units. It's, it's, it's the same cake, different, different flavor is what I'm trying to say. So in order to overcome that fear, it is best to speak with someone who's done it. Let them guide you, get some coaching, lean on advisors who can help you understand what you're stepping into. And once you break down, like you break through that, you're not gonna look back, you won't look back at residential. It's exactly the same as buying my first investment property in Berry.
Speaker 2 00:14:49 It took me five years <laugh> my husband and I to buy our first rental because we were paranoid and scared to death. But then once we stepped into it and we understood what it's all about, and we didn't take anything scary to renovate, we're like, oh my God, we should have done this a lot sooner. What were we thinking? So it's the same thing for the starter investor. And we actually have a program to help the starter investors overcome that hurdle. We call it the level up multi-family. It's a seven steps framework where we sit down, talk about their goals, help them understand where they are right now, what are the gaps that they need to close, is it a money gap, is it an experience gap? Is it a net worth gap? And then we help them understand how to run the numbers. If they have deals we can guide them through. And it's, again, practice makes perfect. That's really it. Or if you don't wanna practice partner with someone who's practiced 2000 times like yourself, Adrian, like you've now mastered multifamily. So there are options out there.
Speaker 1 00:15:53 Absolutely. And I think that, that, that's great advice in 2023, you know, with a team like Dalia has plus, like Dalia mentioned, you know, people that can coach you, mentor you, join venture partner with you, whatever case may be their, your, your power team as Valerie mentioned, there's, you don't need to have that doom and gloom fear to do it on your own, and you're all by yourself, so on and so forth. Exactly,
Speaker 2 00:16:22 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:16:24 You know, in two, this isn't 1950 where there's, there's no information available and this is something brand new. This is time and it's developed so fluidly and there's so much information out there that you're not gonna do it on your own and you're not gonna be there like, like Dalia said, and they guys, like, if you're listening, they even have this program set up within their company that they can help you walk through the seven steps, as Dalia mentioned. Like, so I really want to, you know, take those things, those excuses away. They're, they're like, realistically, if you're, if you're there and you need some questions answered, and we'll get to dahlia's contact information at the end, but I mean, it's a no-brainer personally. Um, you know, Dalia, our bread and butter is the burr. Yes. And everything we do with the burr, and we like to recycle our capital by utilizing the Burr product, the Burr strategy.
Speaker 1 00:17:31 So obviously the market's changed over the last 12 months, 10 months, whatnot. Um, and people like myself have gotten involved in projects before all the rates happened at the peak of the market, and obviously during the course of the project now, and some people are in some big jackpots because they over leveraged. Yes. Our, they're, you know, they're their burr what originally forecasted them to extract all that capital. They're pretty much close to it on the refinance that is not the same anymore. And obviously because of the market, uh, values going down, interest rates up, so on and so forth, they're leaving money in the deal, which you, you're familiar with. I personally have experienced that since the correction and and whatnot. I guess let's get right to the question, what is it a bad investment at the end of the day? Because I know the answer, but at the end of the day, is it a bad investment if an investor now happens to, you know, leave 60, 70 K in a deal because the market's changed for that first refi, what advice would you give that investor that is, oh my God, doom and gloom, we didn't get all our money out, what do we do now?
Speaker 2 00:19:18 Great question. And here, here are my thoughts on this. Many investors are experiencing or have experienced the same thing because of the cycle burden, but we all have to remember that the market goes through cycles. So up, down, eventually up, you know, cycles. Right now we are in the down cycle, which I actually believe the worst is behind us because interest rates have stabilized and we're starting to see momentum, even active offers again in the market, competitive offers, there is shortage of properties and the demand continues to build up. So investors got caught in the downward cycle once, you know, on a bird, okay, so values went down and they couldn't get all of the money. They thought they're gonna get out because the values are no longer there. We can sit here and focus on this, or we can zoom out and think, okay, get great property.
Speaker 2 00:20:28 Demand is still there, supply is short. The market we hold the property in will continue to experience growth over the long run time corrects for things. So it's just a matter of time before we can get that money out. It is not lost forever. It is not doom and gloom, it's just temporary corridor that we're in that will we will get out of once the cycle corrects and over the long run. And I, like I said, I believe the worst is behind us. And also by knowing you, Adrian, you buy properties in markets with strong economics, so apparent, obviously location makes a difference, condition makes a difference. So it's just temporary. The investors who are in trouble are the investors, like you said, who over-leverage, who took huge amount of private money, expected the value to lift up as part of the renovation, and along with the cycle to pay it all off. So these are the investors unfortunately, are experiencing some challenges right now. And I'm not saying it's doom and gloom. There are solutions, but it is harder to address that problem problem than leaving money in a deal.
Speaker 1 00:21:49 Bingo. There's a lot. Yeah. And I, and I'm obviously having those conversations with different investors, um, even new projects starting, some investors are still very hesitant, even though, in my opinion, you know, this is the year for expansion. You can take advantage for example, of that market in, in your purchase prices and whatnot, but yet they still, well, what if it happened Ev you know, what if it continues to go down and our refi isn't as fruitful as what we're projecting? And I continue to circle back and say, well, what's the worst case scenario? We leave 50, 60, 70 in a deal. Okay, there's no book written that says you can only refi one time. Exactly. You have one ticket and after that it's like, you know, you're guilty and you're going to jail forever.
Speaker 2 00:22:43 <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:22:43 Yes. Right. Again, just guys, we can refinance one, two, however many times provided we qualify on the residential platform. I, I know commercial's different, but you know, I'm talking your typical, you know, triplex, fourplex and whatnot. There's no rule book that says you can only have one kick at the cat. So we ride out the wave, and like you said, it goes in cycles. And when it does start to come up, we refinance again and we pull out our capital again. Guys, if you're in the game for long, long term generational wealth, and we're not flipping and boring private money to flip and then wind up in a bigger jackpot, ride the weight and when it comes up, you know, which it will, you're gonna look like a genius and obviously your anxiety will, will subside. But yeah, anyways, I I wanted to touch on that because I know there's for sure some listeners in that situation right now that are thinking, geez, why did I do that? You know, why did I get involved in that burr or, or this and that, and maybe I should have just put my money in a gic.
Speaker 2 00:23:55 Always, always, always. Hindsight, hindsight is 2020. So today is May 12th. You're looking back and you're going, oh my God, I should have, I shouldn't have done that. I guarantee you fast forward maybe 12 to 18 months out, you're gonna start to see things improve and you're gonna go, oh, I should have entered the market.
Speaker 1 00:24:19 I should have bought another one.
Speaker 2 00:24:20 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:24:21 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:24:23 2020. The key is you definitely want to invest, you wanna make informed investment decisions. I am not a big fan of high leverage in anything or putting your last dollar into anything. Uh, some people may argue with me, but that's my philosophy always. Um, you know, work your money, but manage your risk. And yeah, sometimes things are not gonna go according to plan. Life doesn't go according to plan, but the good news is step back, take a big picture and recognize that this is a temporary snapshot. Fast forward, forward, it's gonna look different.
Speaker 1 00:25:06 Now how many people do you hear, say they know somebody that bought that property six years ago and they only paid 400,000 and now the property's worth 1.2 million. And they always say, had I known I would've bought one too.
Speaker 2 00:25:26 I, so Right.
Speaker 1 00:25:28 Had I known I would've done it too, but who, who would've known? And I didn't, you know, I, I didn't want to take the risk. Right. Yeah. How many people do you know, say that? Dozens and dozens and dozens. So I wanna ask you, we try to keep it to about 40 minutes or for that drive into work or home, but on a personal level, you're very successful now relative to how the world views success. But as you know, our podcast is the more to life. It's all about more to life through the power of real estate investing.
Speaker 2 00:26:08 I love the name.
Speaker 1 00:26:09 Thank you. Back to my question. When Dalia pictures on a personal level, when Dalia pictures more to life for her and her family, what do you see?
Speaker 2 00:26:30 Abundance really on all fronts? Abundance on the wealth front, abundance in my ability to give and, uh, serve abundance, time, abundance, health abundance, relationship abundance tasks for me is, is, uh, wealth and success,
Speaker 1 00:26:49 The full circle? Yes. From health to freedom to wealth to relationships. Amazing. I, I, I ask that question to every guest and I get everything from, um, I want to help people to the different extreme. I want to be Grand Cardone, you know, and everything in between. But that's the first time I got an answer that pretty much checks off that whole circle. So I, I, and I'm not saying it's just to say it, I, I completely mimic if I were to be asked that question. I love that answer. Um, next, one of our last questions is, if you could give Nope. Sorry, second last question.
Speaker 2 00:27:46 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:27:47 If you could give one parting word of advice to all the listeners out there, whether it be, obviously we're talking about real estate and we're talking about more to life and everything to do with that. What would be your one parting word of advice for, for people listening out there to your episode?
Speaker 2 00:28:10 Advice in regards to mortal Life.
Speaker 1 00:28:13 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:28:18 I would say when you do something, be clear and intentional about why and how and what price are you paying, um, as well, because there is a price for everything in my view. And if you do that, you will have, you will be happier in pursuing your goals and also understanding how that impacts other things that are of high priority to you. So intentions and awareness about the doing and the planning and the actioning in my view, uh, has taught me a lot.
Speaker 1 00:29:01 Awesome. Last question. What is your why? Why do you do what you do?
Speaker 2 00:29:14 I was actually thinking about that, um, on my last vacation. My why has changed over time. I, it's, uh, my, my why when I was younger was about, you know, achieving and becoming successful and getting awards and getting my medals and proving that I can do it. That was my why. My why right now is more about putting things out there that can truly help others get clarity, direction, elevate, um, them in different ways, not necessarily money. And also, um, giving experiences to my family, unique experiences to my family, and those who I cross past with to experience, experience the world. That's really what's what, what my why is
Speaker 1 00:30:06 Amazing. Amazing. So for those of you who don't know, Dalia is going to be on stage at the multi-family conference, uh, coming up at the end of this month. This episode will be released Dalia, before the multifamily. So people, if you're there, uh, her, her and her team, not only will Dalia be on stage, but her and her team also have a booth. Um, so take a minute, stop by, introduce yourself, um, shake her hand. Obviously a very powerful, powerful lady in the industry. So someone that you definitely wanna meet. Um, Dalia obviously, and this is more of a, uh, information for your companies, correct me if I'm wrong, but your team is trained to handle everything from a single family home all the way up to a hundred unit apartment building. Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 00:31:12 Absolutely. Absolutely. And at the foundation, and the foundation of it is, um, cheapest type of money, which is a money, alternative money, private money, commercial money. So we understand and have access to the money pieces to enable, uh, our clients to succeed, whether they're choosing residential or multi-family. And our forte is helping investors scale. That's how we build our reputation over time. Uh, not by taking easy deals, by taking complex problems and finding solutions to them. And that's what we love to do as well.
Speaker 1 00:31:50 Amazing. So guys, if you're involved in a deal or you're about to embark on a deal, everything from, you know, if you choose to invest in single family home, or like I said, everything up to a hundred unit apartment building and everything in between, it's worth giving DiUS team a call. And, um, if they can't help you, probably nobody can in, in in that regard. So, Dalia, how do people get ahold of you? How do they get ahold of you and your team should they want to speak and do business together?
Speaker 2 00:32:22 It's one email address, info streetwise mortgages.com.
Speaker 1 00:32:29 Info streetwise mortgages.com. Alright.
Speaker 2 00:32:33 Or through our website. There is a contact form through our website as well.
Speaker 1 00:32:37 Amazing. Well, good luck at the, uh, good luck on stage at the multifamily conference. I will be there sharing you on. Thank you. I'm sure we'll, we'll bump, we'll bump into each other there as well. Thank you for being on the more to life and sharing what more to life and all your experience means and has been with you and your team.
Speaker 2 00:32:57 Thank you, Adrian. Thank you for having me today. Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 00:33:01 Thank you.
