Speaker 0 00:00:01 Unlock more to life with Adrian Penoza real estate investing podcast, where we broadcast interviews with successful real estate investors across north America, to empower you on your journey, to unlocking more to life with real estate and investing. Now, now here's your host, Adrian Penoza.
Speaker 1 00:00:27 Hey everyone. It's Adrian. Penoza here with more to life real estate investing podcast, and we're live here. Um, super excited for our second episode ever. And actually our very, very first guest on our show. Um, I'm super pumped today because probably about five or six years ago, I was hosted on a podcast which changed my real estate investing career five or six years ago. I was a guest on the breakthrough real estate investing podcast, hosted by my business partner, our guest, our first guest here today, the one and only Sandy McKay. So I'm gonna, uh, turn the mic over to Sandy, but, uh, for those of you who don't know Sandy and I have been in business together now for give or take about five years, um, we own several companies together that we'll get into throughout the show, all to do, obviously with our real estate investing careers and our real estate careers. So without further delay, the one and only world renowned Sandy McKay <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:01:36 Thanks, Adrian. I'm excited to be here. It's pump to be the first guest honored to be the first guest. I love the concept of the show and, um, it's gonna be fun. I'm excited to see the growth of it and, uh, you know, no doubts, uh, based on your track record with how we like to build things up and, and be successful with it. I figure it'll be an awesome show and it'll be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 00:01:56 Yeah. Cool. So Sandy, and for those of you don't know, Sandy, why don't you give us a little bit of an introduction to yourself and how you got started, I guess your journey overall in real estate investing right from day one to where you are today,
Speaker 2 00:02:13 For sure. Uh, so, uh, you know, we started out in real estate investment world with, you know, like a lot of people kind of, not really anything, not really know what we were doing, not really any money. And we started get into creative, real estate investing cuz we had no money to really invest with. And so we, you know, we kind of thought when I say we, my wife and I, Kate and I, we were kind of figuring out, you know, how do we do this thing? How do we make some sort of investment model work when we don't have any money? And we didn't want that to be the roadblock. And so we started doing a whole bunch of research, went to some events, networking events, learning events, educational events, two, three day weekend type events where we learned all sorts of strategies, rent to own wholesaling sandwich, lease option deals, all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2 00:02:59 And you know, what, what was the most attractive of course, cause it involved pretty much zero money was wholesaling. And so we started to look at how we might be able to, to do this wholesaling real estate concept. And it was, uh, it's a very, very challenging concept to make work. Although, uh, we were able to succeed at it in, in a few ways, you know, we're able to do, we did about 10 deals overall wholesaling in the, in about a two year period. One of them happened to be a $25,000 wholesale fee, which was for us incredible amount of money at the time that we had access to. And we actually parlayed that into our first investment property. So we took that 25 grand and I think we needed maybe one or two grand extra on top of that to buy a duplex in OWA, Ontario for 5% down.
Speaker 2 00:03:46 And it was a $267,000 property. And this would've been in 2013, maybe 2012, something around there. And, uh, it was, it was amazing. It was exciting. We had our first property, you know, we had done a few wholesale deals, but weren't really sure, you know, if that was gonna go anywhere. What we did during that time though, was we were going to a lot of events, networking events. We were building up lists of buyers, investors, cuz for wholesaling real estate, you kind of build up two sides. You build up motivated sellers lists, which is the challenging part, finding the deals that are, that are, that are great so that you can now sell those or, or be the kind of intermediary between that person and the buyer. Who's gonna be the investor. And so we were building up the investor list too at the same time, which in hindsight was really smart.
Speaker 2 00:04:32 Um, because we're building up our database of clients now that we still work with in a lot of ways in the real estate world with, um, doing joint venture deals or doing real estate transactions as, as the realtor. So we, uh, we built that list up. We networked like crazy, learned a ton, spent a lot of time educating ourselves and then bought that first property that led us to access to more capital over a two or three year span. I think it was just about two years, you know, that property had gone up nearly, uh, would've been at least $150,000 extra. So we had a bunch of equity there that we're now able to tap into to do some other things with. And we also got a real estate license at the same time that wish it would've been 2014, early 2014. And which was the same year I launched our podcast breakthrough real estate investment podcast.
Speaker 2 00:05:18 And yeah, in that, in that year, we, we joined up with uh, uh, uh, team leader, mentor trainer of ours, mark Lawler. We started doing a whole bunch of real estate investment activity working with a lot of real estate investors. I learned a ton with him working alongside him, you know, on my, my thought process on what was possible, went from probably pretty low to, you know, really high. And I, I thought, you know, I really learned what hard working was and what was possible. And so worked there for, for, for two years, we then moved on and started our own team, real estate team, which was our, our realtor team I should say. And then, so through that we started buying and selling a lot more properties all along the way. We started buying more properties ourselves, my wife and I, we got visits with you, obviously.
Speaker 2 00:06:05 Uh, not too long after that, we started buying more properties together and uh, fast forward to today, we've built up realtor team that's uh, got 30 or so members on it we've, uh, bought a ton more properties. You and I, I'm not sure what our number is, maybe 200 ish in terms of units. And then we've built up the construction company, the pro property management company. And so we've kind of filled out this ecosystem of companies within the real estate investment world. And uh, and then we launched a brokerage earlier this year, too. So that's where I'm primarily spending a lot of my time today is realtor team and the brokerage and really supporting realtors to, uh, help them understand the value of investing and, and building wealth and that sort of thing. So lot to say that, but that's, that's kind of my journey in real estate over the last, uh, nearly 10 years.
Speaker 1 00:06:53 So needless to say, um, you know, it, it's, it's really amazing because you took something, you know, you hear all the time, people that want to get in started started with real estate investing one of the biggest, uh, objections or, you know, downfalls, they always say, well, I don't have any money. How am I gonna do that? And you and your wife, Kate are a prime example where you had zero kind of like myself actually when I first started, but that didn't stop you. And obviously you, you found a way whether it was the wholesaling thing and whatnot to, to not just put your hands up and not try or, or grow something. And now 10 years later, you own a plethora of properties, businesses for that matter, including your own brokerage, um, in the city of Vaughn all in how many years would, would you about 10 years now?
Speaker 2 00:07:45 10 years. Yeah. I mean, you know, people would look at it, I would say it's 10 years. A lot of people wouldn't wouldn't know anything about me for the first four or five years of that. It was really, you know, that's probably maybe something we can talk about too is the, the, the work that goes on behind the scenes initially is usually doesn't get seen. Um, and then all of a sudden it's an overnight success sort of thing. Right. But, uh, but we definitely grinded and Hudsons challenges for, for a bunch of years there in the beginning.
Speaker 1 00:08:09 Yeah, for sure. For sure. When really nobody knows who you are and you're working the hardest behind these scenes and that's where you're really putting the blood, sweat and tears in actually it's that first five years that nobody even knows your name or what you're doing, but yeah, since obviously paid off cool. Obviously we've done a lot together in the past, uh, five years that we've been in business together and kind of fed off each other's experiences and knowledge in the real estate world. But you bring a unique, you know, getting to know you over the course of the last several years, you bring a unique talent or talent to the table, uh, above and beyond just real estate investing, but more, even more on a personal level or team building level. Um, what are the three biggest, um, if I were to ask you this question, what are the three biggest, um, strengths you have on a personal and business, um, level your three biggest strengths.
Speaker 2 00:09:10 One of them that I think is, is the strength now looking back is, is patience. I think that's good and bad depending how you look at it, but it, you know, I think that's something maybe I'm a little unique with a lot of entrepreneurs are, let's get it done today to today. Let's go, go, go. Which I, I fortunately have a lot of people around me that are like that, cuz that helps compliment me being fairly patient. But I think having patience, it also allows, allows me to go and say, well, I'm okay to work for five years before getting that big gratification at at some point. Um, but I don't need the gratification tomorrow because you know, when you're looking for that short, just quick turnaround, overnight success sort of thing, and it doesn't happen. You get really, really, you know, down on yourself and it it's, it's a lot easier to not get down on yourself when you have a bit of patience.
Speaker 2 00:09:55 It's a, it's a it's there's times where it's such a grind, but um, being able to see the, the, the light at the end of the tunnel and, and being okay with waiting a bit for that to show up, I think is a, is a big thing. And I think just, uh, you know, one thing I, I never really, uh, realized until for a long time after finishing off schooling, but I, I actually really enjoy learning. Um, I always thought I was kinda, you know, I guess I'd say lifelong learner. I think that's a, a big, important thing for a lot of entrepreneurs is to, to stay curious and not just be a know it all, but stay curious and wanting to learn more because I don't know, I didn't really enjoy school all that much, to be honest for the most part, but probably because it just wasn't, I didn't see what it was gonna get me.
Speaker 2 00:10:38 I didn't see what it was going to do for me ultimately, cause I wasn't that interested in the topics, but you know, all of a sudden getting into more like a real estate world or in the realtor world as well, you know, I just, it's more enjoyable. I can see why, where the value is in learning and growing. So I've spent a lot of time doing that and uh, that shows up in, in more leadership capabilities and, uh, your ability to make things happen. So those are two, um, a third one, I mean, grit in, in line with the patients and every entrepreneur, this perseverance grit, what everyone think of it, there's a heck of a lot of hard times, right? As you're building a business up any business, there's like terrible times. <laugh> at times, which are really hard to get through sleep. Some sleepless nights, you know, hard work I guess.
Speaker 2 00:11:21 And great combination of that is really almost it's essential to, to succeed in any business, cuz you're gonna have times where you're, you worked a 70, 80, a hundred hour week and you're going, I got nothing out of that. Like literally look at the results. There's nothing but patience. And, and that pays off over time. That'll that'll parlay and, and compound into something. You just have to, you know, be able to fight through that, know that the, the positives are coming and, and it's gonna pay off one day like it or not. You know, even if the biggest failure ever happens, you're gonna learn from it and choosing to learn from that and uh, and grow rather than beat yourself up is, uh, is important. And, and that allows you to kind of get that grit that you need to keep going.
Speaker 1 00:12:02 And I think six,
Speaker 2 00:12:03 Three, there's probably a bunch more, but those are, those are three that I think that I, I think about quite a bit,
Speaker 1 00:12:07 One that resonates with me knowing a little bit about your personality and you've probably been told this, and I've heard conversations about you about it from other agents and other investors we've we've worked with together obviously is you obvious you're, you're very humble, even though you've had very good success. You're not your typical, um, look at me kind of guy out there and look at everything I've done. You're more, you're, you're more quiet and humbled. And I think that also helps you to attract the achievements you have because people can relate. And I don't know if enjoys the right word, but enjoy your personality and your humbleness in the business space. You don't really portray yourself as someone that's here and other people are here just cuz you've had great success. And I'm sure you that before as well.
Speaker 2 00:13:00 Yeah. Oh yeah. I think that's that's. That is a, that is a big thing. I would say. I think there's two sides to that one. I, I have to bring myself outta that at times, cuz I think there's times where that can be a negative. Um, but I think whether you're that or the, you know, the opposite of that when I'm naturally maybe a little more humble or, or, or, or, um, low key in that case, there's times where I need to consciously bring myself up to cuz there's times where you really should be a little more showy, I guess, into what you're doing. Like you can't be super quiet all the time. Same thing for someone else. Who's the opposite side of that, you know, when they do act really humble and they're not typically that, you know, that shows up people are pleasantly surprised and, and enjoy that. So I think, um, you know, just being conscious and aware of that, whether you're at either end of that scale is, is important and yeah, the hum being humble is kind of more of a natural thing. I think with me, which is, um, it does help with the team building side and, and getting people to buy in because they know it's not all about me,
Speaker 1 00:13:59 Absolutely 10 years or so in, in the real estate investing world, I actually gonna stand corrected here or stand you corrected, you said about 200 units we own together. It's probably closer to 260 mm-hmm <affirmative>, there's that humble side of you again, coming out. But yeah, we're about 260 units now that we own together. Uh, it's joint venture partnerships, you own, uh, a massive real estate team. You've opened up your own brokerage. You own obviously the, the real estate team, the, the investment company, the construction company, uh, a landscaping company. So a ton of knowledge, obviously you've been able to acquire over the number of years, a ton of knowledge, ton of experience, which I think makes you, obviously we have a personal connection, but as far as credibility, I think it makes you a great first interview person on this, on our show. So excited to get into these topics we're gonna start with, which is a topic you and I have really become familiar with. And that's the Burr model, the Burr strategy we've incorporated so many times in projects we've done together in our joint venture partnerships. So obviously we have the Burr and we have turnkey to different kind of real estate investing models in your opinion or not your opinion, but in your experience, which strategy do you like better and why?
Speaker 2 00:15:30 So we've and thanks for, uh, uh, correcting me there. <laugh>, I'm glad that we own two 60 plus now. That's great. Be the reason we've been able to get there in, in the short amount of time is due to the birth strategy primarily, right? And, and being able to take a chunk of cash that's, you know, we have available whether it's ours or a partner or, or somewhere where we get that money from, we can now recycle that over and over again. Right. As opposed to just having it sit in something for five years, if we had taken the money we've raised or, or put ourselves in the last eight, 10 years and, and just park that into turnkey properties, we, we, we wouldn't have near nearly as many units or as many properties as we have today. We probably would've had to work less.
Speaker 2 00:16:13 Probably it might have been a bit easier from, from a time perspective, however, and probably just stress levels. Might've been a bit easier, but at the same time, we wouldn't have nearly as much as we have today that, you know, outta those 260 units, you know, there's 50, 50, 60 properties get, or take some somewhere around there. Maybe you'll say more. But, um, like I say, there's 60, 60 properties. All of those properties are appreciating now for us passively at this point as after we're done the, the hard part and done their renovation and, and turn these over, we're just letting them ride for the long term, which is essentially what you're doing with the turnkey property anyways. And so really we've just expedited our path to, to building big wealth, um, rather than waiting maybe 20 plus years to get the same amount of success. We've, we've turned that in, you know, the same sort of, uh, outcomes in five years give or take, right?
Speaker 2 00:17:03 So I think there's, there's, uh, there's room for both methods depending on your strategy and your goals in life for us, uh, and for, for people that have the capacity and, and the team and, and the capabilities of doing it, the birth strategy works all day long, cuz you can just go so much faster and we only have a limited amount of time in life. You might as well get there as fast as you can, as much as I said, being patient is great. Yeah. It, it is always nicer to get there faster. Yeah. So the first strategy is great for that.
Speaker 1 00:17:31 Couldn't agree more. I want take you back to whether it's been one of your first projects or one of your last projects that you've been involved in. What would you say is the most profitable bur project you've been involved in,
Speaker 2 00:17:48 In your real estate career? We've had some good successes for sure. Where, where we've, we've gone through, you know, the whole remodel of a property, um, refinance and pulled out, you know, excess money afterwards, which always feels great. That's that's the coolest part about a bur is when you actually finish it and you, you pull out even more money than you put in. That's where that, that model really makes a ton of sense. Cause you're pulling out tax free at the time tax free money, which is crazy. So, you know, the ones, the, the one that comes to mind for me around that was, um, was, uh, two projects and one really two, uh, side by side semis that we bought in Hamilton. Would've been 20 fif, 2015 or 16, I believe. And 2016, I think. So we bought them now thinking back, it's crazy. We bought them for 237,000, each side by side. So 575,000 total. Uh, and these were, uh, four, four and five unit properties at the time. Disasters, disasters. Uh, I know you remember them cuz you were potentially gonna buy them too at the time.
Speaker 2 00:18:57 I think I was, I think I was just your realtor at the time and we were looking at buy those and uh, they, I mean, to be fair, there was, it was raining through the ceiling. We, you could stand there at night and look up and get rained on from the main floor <laugh> yeah, yeah. Um, on a three, three story property, you could get rained on probably on the main floor. So there was a lot of, uh, issues and people were living in it. There was tenants in there. Yeah. Um, actually what made that, what made the one side of the, that deal really sweet was we had bought them with like a three or four month closing, but vacant possession, the owner had agreed to vacant possession and that was gonna be hard to get for that. So we, I think that it was like a 10 month closing ultimately at the end of the day because they couldn't get the tenants out and it was back and forth trying to figure that out.
Speaker 2 00:19:43 Ultimately they did get them out, but it took 10 months. So from the time of running the contract to closing on it, you know, that $237, $237,000 price was a good deal at the beginning was an amazing deal. 10 months later was the, at that time the properties were increasing. Like they haven't been since. Right. But that those two pro projects were awesome because, uh, you know, we, we were able to take a terrible property, terrible properties and turn them into something really cool and awesome to, to, to be proud, I guess, to own. Um, they're both, one of them actually is a three unit. One of them's a four unit, uh, because legalities with city and stuff, we weren't able to keep them at the use that they were actually being used as, but we did spend, I think we spent between two 50 and 300,000 on renovations on each side. So quite a bit of renovation work, they needed everything. And you know, ultimately at the end of it, they were, uh, refinanced at eight 50 and 800, you know, they'd be worth maybe 1, 1, 1, something like that today. Give or take over a million, I would say for sure. And uh, and that's been,
Speaker 1 00:20:50 Can we just recap those numbers? Cause that kind of went, went yeah, really quickly, but it was super, super impressive. So just go over the purchase price again, the rental budget and the refi.
Speaker 2 00:21:01 So 2 37
Speaker 1 00:21:03 Aside, both
Speaker 2 00:21:04 Of them aside,
Speaker 1 00:21:05 Right?
Speaker 2 00:21:06 Uh, I'll say we're 2 75 renovations on both. I think one was about three. One was about two 50. So let's say 2 75 on each. So we're into them for now. What's that? 502,
Speaker 1 00:21:18 Five plus 2 75. That's 5, 10, 5, 10.
Speaker 2 00:21:22 Okay. So one of them, we refined at eight 50 and we pulled out 80. We pulled out, uh, 80%, so 680,000.
Speaker 1 00:21:31 So six 80 minus five 10, that gives you 170. You can do surplus.
Speaker 2 00:21:37 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:21:38 So you got all your money back plus 170,000 on that one side
Speaker 2 00:21:43 On the one side.
Speaker 1 00:21:45 Right. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:21:45 And we own them and we own them still since. Right. So we're still getting more and the other one was the other one was the same numbers, but then we refinanced at 800. So that would be a little less, but still what? 130,000,
Speaker 1 00:21:59 130 overall. So one 70 plus one 30. So you made, you got all your money back, but on top of that you made about $300,000 surplus. Yeah. Incredible
Speaker 2 00:22:16 On top of that. And that was uh, one year, one just a little over a year, maybe the, the process of doing the renovations. So, you know, we, we had other things on the go to at same time, but it wa it did take a little longer than our typical bird just cuz there was lingering tenant issues. There was city issues, there was a whole bunch of things ultimately is an amazing deal. It's it's still one of our, of, you know, enjoyable ones to own. And it's uh, it's, like I said, it's made even more money now since
Speaker 1 00:22:42 Amazing. I I've probably, or I we've probably been taking, probably taken part in, I don't know, altogether in our, our real estate careers close to 35, 40 bur easy, uh, throughout careers. And I don't think we've ever seen numbers like that since that project.
Speaker 2 00:23:03 I mean going
Speaker 1 00:23:03 Out 300 grand at the end of the day above and beyond getting all your money out, it was just insane. Yeah. Insane. And I had a chance to buy that, but I checked out <laugh> before we got into business together. I think like you said, for those of you who don't know Sandy and I originally met as I was a real estate investor and a police officer at the same time. And obviously Sandy was my realtor that I was using back then before I became licensed to buy properties. And before we came into business together, so incredible, incredible results obviously. So I wanna shift into talking a little bit about power teams and building teams. I know Sandy, you have, um, a ton of experience in, um, obviously building teams, not only your real estate team McKay Realty network, but uh, you obviously recently opened up your own brokerage in VA under the Keller Williams umbrella. So you have a ton of experience on building teams in that real estate space. Tell us a little bit about how do you go about attracting great people and surround yourself with those kind of people on your teams that you've built over your
Speaker 2 00:24:16 Career. Yeah. There's, you know, for the investors out there, you think power team, you think of your preferred vendors type people, right. People that you do, you know, help put your deals together. So there's, there's two parts where there's that power team who are typically not really, you're not working directly with them every day necessarily. They're not like staff of yours or they're not people that work with you or for you. Um, but they're just outsourced people that you are partnership in a sense with like your mortgage broker and your, your accountant and things like that. Those are, those are really important to have around. Of course, when you're doing your investments, um, you need people that are gonna be there to help when times get tough and uh, they need to be qualified and, and great people to work with even more important. When now they're coming, you know, working really directly with you every day as part of a, a team, whether they're sales people, you know, that working with you as subcontractors or they're staff, employees that work with you, those are incredibly important people to have, uh, around you and are the difference between, you know, you, you know, doing something cool or, or we collectively doing something incredible.
Speaker 2 00:25:22 It's, it's very much the people and there's systems, there's models, there's all these different things you can go into that are important, but nothing, nothing, nothing would be more important than the people around it because ultimately, you know, there's just, there's so much in there with the relationships they build and the, the people they know and, and it's, you know, one person doing something verse 30, you know, you get 30 great people. That's 30 different networks that you get to tap into. So when you're in a sales business, especially like a realtor business or a raising money type business, your database, your connections, that's everything. And so having 30 great people versus just myself, you know, just the math on that, you know, we're gonna exponentially grow. And when we have great people that the key to that now is the culture and building out a comradery amongst the team that, that makes everyone wanna be there, be excited about building something together, not just for themselves, like we said earlier, not, you know, that's, the humbleness kind of comes in.
Speaker 2 00:26:19 You want humble people in that, that sense, cuz it's gotta be about something bigger, bigger than just them. And you know, getting that buy in is, uh, is, uh, is something that I think a lot of people struggle with. Um, I have at times too, it's, it's not a like, you know, everyone in this, world's always kind of thinking about what's in it for them. And to an extent that's important, but at the same time we can build something way more exciting and fun as a group. So the biggest thing I, I focused on with that, uh, and it's something most people just bypass or, or brush off as, not that important, even if you go to a seminar or something and learn about it, it, it seems important, but nobody really wants to do it. They don't give it the attention it deserves. I feel, but coming up with a real mission and a vision for the business, you know, why, why are we doing this?
Speaker 2 00:27:03 Is it just money? Or is there like something underlying there that, that is exciting for everyone to rally around? I think that's one of the keys there is, is just understanding a bit about your why and why you're doing this cause making money's great, but what are you doing it for? Right. What is the point of, you know, we can all make, if we made half a million dollars, anyone can live off that very comfortably. Why do we need to go make a million or 10 million or a hundred million? What's the point, right? There has to be something beyond just the money or else we'd give up at and quit at the 500,000 or the 50,000. Right. Cause what's the point of going on. So rallying around a common, why is important? And I think, you know, finding your own personal why before that is important, cuz those typically go hand to hand. So, so those are just a few things that I think about on the team side, but getting people bought in on that vision and the mission is, is probably number one. And the more clear you can get on that, the more you can explain that to people and, and, and have people understand what that is, the better you'll be, the more you'll get that camaraderie and the teamwork to grow.
Speaker 1 00:28:03 I think it's important to touch upon obviously having all these teams in place for yourself and your businesses, what's your company's culture like and how do you build that positive culture in that environment and that space. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2 00:28:17 Yeah, it's a hard thing, but there's a, there's a quote that goes, uh what's how does it go? Culture eats, uh, performance for breakfast or something like that? Um, there's a, there's a famous line around that this underlying the importance of culture cuz when things get tough, which they inevit inevitably do in any business, there are times where people, if the culture's not there and it's not great, they're not bought into something bigger than just, just their own stuff. You know, there's a very easy time to just give up or, or leave or quit. And culture ultimately is something that really keeps people around. Keeps, uh, keeps me around, keeps us around as like the, as the leaders, um, because we're excited about being there and, and being a part of that culture. It's a hard thing to build. Um, it comes back to the, the mission and the vision and the why and, and being sharing and collaborative, I think is a big thing for us.
Speaker 2 00:29:07 You know, being there for each other, helping each other grow, even if it means we're losing in the moment maybe, and we're maybe helping someone, even if it's not a win for us in the moment, but we know it's gonna reciprocate and come back around and they're gonna help us. We're gonna help them. I think that's a really great culture to be around is fun and collaborative and uh, and getting the right people that are, you know, we think about hiring people. We think about three main things, humble. They gotta be humble to self at least, you know, relatively humble or be able to put their ego aside when needed. They gotta be smart, meaning mostly street smart because you know, being street smart, I find is a, is a, is a, is a, is a big thing. Common sense basically is what I mean by hu having a common sense and then being hungry.
Speaker 2 00:29:50 Cause it's, it's, it's all, all great to be humble and, and, and smart and all this stuff. But if you're not hungry, you're motivated to do something then, you know, ultimately the business needs produce results, right? And so, you know, it's no fun to have a great culture and come in last place every time you wanna produce a culture of winning and success as well. So those are the three big things we kind of look for and think about when we're making hires and talking to people around, getting into business together, are they humble, hungry, smart, and the more we bring those people around together, the more we can grow together.
Speaker 1 00:30:19 Cool. Uh, pretty cool question here. The relationship that you and I have built over the past, you know, five years of being in business and starting to be in business together, we have a lot of different people in place and within our organization and teams. But question is, what do you think is the most important part about being on a team? What's the most important part about being on a team, whether it's in real estate investing or real estate, uh, sales and whatnot, what's the most important part about being on a team?
Speaker 2 00:30:54 You know, it kind of, it depends a little bit about what, what, what role you're taking on. But I think the leadership is the biggest thing probably ultimately is, is having not just like the top people, having, you know, good leadership skills and, and developing those consistently, but creating other leaders within your organization. The more you're able to do that, the more, you know, people talk to me a lot about and think I'm great at leveraging things, which I think I'm pretty good at it, but I'm by no means the best at it out there. But the only reason, the only way you can leverage anything is cuz you have confidence in that person, you know, underneath you kind of to take on that role and, and, and succeed at it. Right. So how do you have faith and confidence in that person is you need to develop them as a leader and not just, you know, being able to accomplish some tasks, but do them at a high level better than you can hopefully.
Speaker 2 00:31:42 And so, you know, that takes a bit of time and effort, but it ultimately comes down to leadership and them growing their skills. And, you know, especially when you get into a scale where you have kind of those other management roles that are coming into play where it's not just you and a bunch of people underneath you, but now there's you. And there's another leadership role there. And another one and you know, we look at them as kind of managers would be the word, but I see them more as leaders. How are we developing them so that they can continuously develop more leaders and more leaders? And that's how you can start to scale really big. Cuz now you have confidence in that person's ability to lead others, to lead the organization and, and achieve success. So that's, uh, one of the things I think about when you ask that is, is, is, uh, and I think you'll see that in all the great organizations is you'll see, they have some component of developing leaders within the organization. That's a big key.
Speaker 1 00:32:32 Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And that makes total sense for sure. We're gonna segue into back to some of the real estate topics. What is the best way? And maybe we touched upon that a little bit with the bird. What is the best way to build your real estate portfolio? Obviously you have an, an incredible, uh, size portfolio. Uh mm-hmm <affirmative> number of properties and doors, but what would you say is the best way to build your portfolio? Is, is it the bur, is it turnkey? Is it your power team?
Speaker 2 00:33:03 Yeah. Is it,
Speaker 1 00:33:04 What is it?
Speaker 2 00:33:04 I think there's, uh, I'll say for, you know, to build a big portfolio, I would say some version of the bur makes a lot of sense, cuz you can take money, recycle it. You don't need to, you know, to buy a a hundred million worth of properties. You don't need a hundred or, or, or I guess if you even leverage financing, you don't need 20 million worth to buy that. You can take a chunk of 300,000 maybe and keep rolling it over and over and over again to build that. So I think beer model is a great model. The only thing I'll say though, is that it's not, absolutely not for everybody. If it doesn't suit your lifestyle to be working, you know, with people and, and, and every day in it managing cons, construction crews, managing properties, finding deals, if you don't have the capacity to do that, you know, it might be finding someone that has that capacity in partnering with them.
Speaker 2 00:33:55 That's an amazing way to build a portfolio is just, if you have some financing, if you have 300 grand 500 grand, a million bucks and you have the, the team that you can now partner with to grow that portfolio with, that's an amazing opportunity to do almost nothing. Maybe <laugh> um, except fors and checks and, and sign and documents to grow a really great portfolio pretty fast. That's an amazing way. And then the other thing too, I'll just say is that everyone's a bit different. And what, what is it's worth thinking about what your actual goals are in the first place, you know, is your goal to own 260 plus units? Is it owned to own six, right? Cause we know one or two investment properties owned. If you own them a hundred percent, if you bought them today, 15, 20 years from now are gonna be worth, you know, if you have three properties, 15, 20 years from now, that's gonna be a few million bucks, very likely, depending on the price points and everything, but even at like a $300,000 price point, those are gonna be worth a few million bucks in, in, in 20 years.
Speaker 2 00:34:52 Right? So, you know, buying, uh, a lot of properties doesn't necessarily need to be, be the case for, for that person's goals and what they want to do. Maybe it's just to afford their children's education or retire earlier. You know, they might not need to buy dozens of, or hundreds of properties. So I think that's important too, to just consider why you're doing it. And, and what's really important because as, as we know, right, 260 plus units is, is, does take a little more time and effort to, to manage and look at than, than six units. So, you know, if you have a really busy lifestyle outside of real estate, um, big family or, or a really busy job or busy, busy work career, probably you, you might not need that much stress in your life. Um, it might be easier to just buy a few yourself.
Speaker 2 00:35:35 Maybe there are few turnkey ones, or like I said, find someone who has the ability to take that chunk of cash you have and turn it over faster and buy more properties. I think ultimately what we do. Yeah. We've partnered with a lot of people in that sense and ultimately it's the burst strategy that, that, that speeds that up. So I still come back to that as probably the great strategy. Right. But then just considering yourself and your, your, your, your real goals and what you can, can, you know, take on in life as, as far as time, um, might change your approach a little bit.
Speaker 1 00:36:04 Yeah, for sure. This is more of a real estate kind of question, I guess it could go to with real estate investing, but obviously you have a, you have a, a niche for attracting good realtors on your team and working in unison together and getting into business with them. So as a realtor, what is your opinion on how to best separate yourself from the competition out there? Cuz obviously real estate and real estate investing for that matter is very competitive market. On any standpoint, how do, how do you separate yourself from the competition out there?
Speaker 2 00:36:38 Couple things. I love that question. Couple things that come to mind, one, we all come into this industry or whatever industry you're going in. If you're new into the industry, you know, you're coming in with very little skill set, probably unless they're, you know, maybe in, if you're in a sales career previous, you might have some, some skills there, but there's a lot that goes into working your skills and developing those that can definitely separate you. But the only way to do that is to, is to consistently daily do the activities that are needed to build that up the skills side of it and also the business development side of it and, and finding business, finding people to work with, you know, there's a lot that goes into that. That's easily in almost any business, real, real realtor world and, and real estate investing world.
Speaker 2 00:37:20 For sure. That's like 50 plus percent of the business right there. So a lot of people getting into a sales career, especially in real estate, they might think about, you know, they have to have a website, they have to have nice business cards. They have to have a nice logo and all these different things that are not, they're not, not important, but they're irrelevant until you have business coming in. Right. So I think consistently daily coming up with a plan to, to, and it doesn't need to be an eight hour day and it needs to be like a three to four hour window probably every day where you're actually focusing on the activities that are gonna bring you business. So that could be making phone calls that could be networking, going to networking events that could be, um, that could be purposeful social media activity, where you're generating business by conversations and networking with people.
Speaker 2 00:38:08 Um, but one way or another consistently daily repeatedly working on developing business and uh, and focusing on your main activities, your top activities that bring business and not all the other fluff that that can be dealt with down the road. I think those are the biggest things starting out and ongoing to consistently do. And the more you do that consistently, you're gonna have ups and down days, you go through weeks that are horrible and nothing happens and you're feeling like it's a waste of time and then you'll have an amazing week the week after. And so it, it evens out over time, but doing that consistently, nothing beats that nothing beats that and very few people do it. So you get to set yourself apart massively just by, by, by putting in that consistent, purposeful effort every
Speaker 1 00:38:49 Day. Good answer. Yeah. I couldn't couldn't agree more on that one. It's kind of what you taught me. Obviously you've, you've been a realtor longer and had your real estate license longer than me, but I remember when we got into business together or started on a team together, uh, yeah, you really hammered that home as far as being consistent in your follow ups and your daily activities, that'll generate results. And if you're not consistent, it's gonna be evident in the results that you produce, obviously. So couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 00:39:18 It's funny in any, in any, in any business too quickly on that too, any business it's funny, the first three, follow up these your best chance at, at getting a, an appointment or someone into business with you, then it fizzles off a bit the next best. Um, I forget what the theory is called on this, but the next best is actually the seventh follow up, so.
Speaker 1 00:39:35 Oh really? Okay.
Speaker 2 00:39:36 Yeah. It's interesting to see that the, yeah, because the seventh follow up is, is, is the data says that you'll get better results then, so you have to follow up a lot. Right? It's a lot of activities to get to the seventh, eighth, ninth beyond. Right. So it's a lot of activity, but that's your great again, just don't give up.
Speaker 1 00:39:51 Absolutely. So we're gonna finish off, uh, with a couple of personal questions. First one is, um, what is your why and why do you do what you do?
Speaker 2 00:40:04 So I, you know, we talked about that a bit too, right? Having the importance of having that and, and making sure that, that, that feeds into your team and all that too. You know, I had a realization a few years ago where I, where I was, I don't know, maybe just having a rough month or week or something where I just didn't feel great about way things were going. And I wasn't really sure what I was excited about, but, you know, I realized cuz there's, there's always, you know, like I said earlier, you can work like crazy to make a few hundred grand a year or something. Most people don't really need much more than that. Um, you know, people ask you and I a lot too. Why, how many more like buildings do you need? Like you got a ton of properties. What's the point I really enjoy.
Speaker 2 00:40:41 I realize I really enjoy and get way more fulfillment end of helping other people build that same, you know, wealth and, and success in their life. And it's a hell of a lot more exciting to wake up every day when I focus on that. And so, you know, we've really started focusing that a few years back now just around other people and helping them develop their version of generational wealth. And whether that be on the investment side or, or as realtors or, or, um, in one of our other companies, just helping them build their wealth, helping them be able to do some amazing things in their life. It's really exciting when you get someone that, that hasn't had that and you help them develop that over a few years and now you see what they're able to accomplish and, and build for their themselves and their families.
Speaker 2 00:41:20 I find that's really exciting. So when I, whenever I feel a little down or I'm getting a little flustered or, or, or, you know, just not sure if I'm getting what I want to get, I, I, I just put that energy onto helping others do that. And we know ultimately at the end of the day, by doing that, we're gonna get some pretty big results anyways for ourselves. And, and that, that just helps, you know, other people feel that too, and they feel like you care about them and that you're, you're bought into them succeeding. And, um, it's just more exciting. So I I've really started focusing on that, helping others build generation wealth.
Speaker 1 00:41:53 Awesome. Last question. And then, uh, we'll wrap it up when you personally picture more to life, what do you see for yourself
Speaker 2 00:42:06 More to life? Yes. Ultimately business is fun. It's part of, uh, you know, health gives the energy, but there's gotta be more to it than just, just grinding every day. Right. So, you know what I picture, uh, I love traveling. I love seeing new places. Uh, I picture, you know, having family around enjoying great, great places, great food, great, great drinks, great, great people in a great environment with a bunch of people that, uh, along the way we've helped be in business together. And we've done some great things together that are also there hanging out and having fun with us. I think ultimately people are really important in life and, and who you have around you is important. And, uh, and so, you know, one way I have more to life, you know, I'm probably enjoying a great environment, but it's also with whether that environment's amazing or not. It's got the great people there that we, that we like to hang around with and enjoy working together and, and, and working and playing hard together.
Speaker 1 00:42:57 Awesome. Awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:42:59 Hopefully on some, hopefully some are nice and sunny and exotic. Not absolutely not necessarily in Canada in the winters, but
Speaker 1 00:43:05 <laugh> yeah. Down maybe the Caribbean or something.
Speaker 2 00:43:08 Yeah. Awesome.
Speaker 1 00:43:09 All right. Well, awesome. Awesome information, Sandy. There's a lot there, obviously a ton of knowledge, not only on the team building the real estate, investing the realtors side. Yeah. Ton of stuff there. So, uh, for the audience, how do they get a hold of you if they want to pick your brain, if they potentially want to talk about getting into business together, um, on the real estate world, how do they get a hold of
Speaker 2 00:43:31 You? Yeah, I mean, uh, first of all, anyone out there who's thinking about a career in real estate or getting more involved in the real estate world, whether that be investment or real side, or even, you know, we have other businesses in the real estate space. So anyone thinking about that or interested in that we'd love to talk with them, help them maybe guide them down the right path, whether that be with us or otherwise, we'd love to explore that with someone we we're always open to having those conversations so they can reach out to us or to me at, uh, at, through my email, Sandy, a N D ikay Realty network.com, or they could also call us at (289) 389-6846. And you'll get ahold of me through that. Or they can also go check out a whole bunch more free information. Like we said, on ours podcast to break through real estate investing podcast. We got seven years of content there. So there's a hundreds of hours of content. They can go check out and learn more about kind of our story and, um, and the investment side too.
Speaker 1 00:44:21 Yeah. And then obviously you're all over social media, LinkedIn, uh,
Speaker 2 00:44:26 Yeah. That too platforms
Speaker 1 00:44:27 As
Speaker 2 00:44:27 Well. Yeah. Yeah. Very easy to find there for sure.
Speaker 1 00:44:30 All right. Well, it's been great, uh, ton of knowledge there. Thanks for your time, Sandy. And yeah. Look forward to connecting with, uh, other great people on future episodes here at the more to life real estate investing podcast. That's it for today. Everyone hope you enjoyed it. And, uh, reach out to us. I can be
[email protected]. Again, we're all over social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, so on and so forth that, uh, yeah, we'd love to connect to you. Reach out if you can, if you have questions or there's some specific content you'd like to see down the road more than willing to, uh, accommodate that anyways, take care, keeps it breathing and, uh, all the best cheers.
