Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hey everyone. And welcome to the more to life real estate investing podcast. I'm your host. And my name is Adrian Penoza. I'm a former police detective of 21 years turned real estate entrepreneur. Each episode we bring to you an incredible guest. Who's got undeniable experience in the real estate investing world to help you get more to life through the power of real estate investing. So if you enjoy listening to our podcast and our show, please, please don't forget to subscribe, rate and review our podcast. As it helped small podcasts like ours, continue to provide our audience with some incredible value and knowledge. So now let's get right into our next episode. Hey everyone, it's Adrian. Penoza here with the more to life real estate investing podcast, where we help you get more to life through the power of real estate investing. Super excited guys. We have a return guest on our, uh, podcast today.
Speaker 0 00:01:14 We are gonna be talking to, uh, Justin Wu who visited us in episode number four. So for those of you who didn't get a chance to watch episode four with Justin on his first debut within our podcast, go back, listen to episode number four, kind of bring you up to speed if you want. But we brought Justin back because as you know, Justin is our numbers guru wizard, and we felt it was appropriate to bring him back because one, he's a great speaker, lots of knowledge, but two, we wanna really focus and talk to everybody out there and Justin's interpretation and his opinion on the rising interest rates, which is such a hot topic right now, obviously in the real estate world. Um, the rising interest rates and financing, uh, given today's market with our expert, Justin. So before we get into the questions, Justin, give me a second to tell everybody a little bit about yourself or give them a refresher.
Speaker 0 00:02:14 So Justin woo completed 22 years on bay street, um, where he was a financial analyst, uh, for 22 years. Um, he began investing in real estate. I think pretty much when we met. Is that accurate? Yeah, that was give or take, uh, six years ago, roughly. Yeah, about six years ago when we met and actually Justin and I met because he heard me on a podcast, um, and investing podcast and then reached out and made the connection. And here we are six years later, but nevertheless, six years ago he began investing in real estate and back then he was really focusing on smaller acquisitions, duplex, plexes, and whatnot, and has obviously grown in that space and now focuses on multi-family commercial investment properties. Um, in part in joint venture partnership, along with, uh, EPC and to date now in, in such a short time, six years, he's at 115 doors in his portfolio that he owns in partnership with other investors, but nonetheless, very impressive. So Justin, thanks for coming back on after that long winded introduction. Thanks for coming back on the more to life and, uh, welcome.
Speaker 1 00:03:36 Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's good. Be back.
Speaker 0 00:03:39 Yeah, it's been, uh, so episode four I think was back in almost just over a year now cause we, our podcast just hit a year actually. So,
Speaker 1 00:03:48 Uh, congratulations. It's been, it's been great that you've been able to launch this and uh, keep it going.
Speaker 0 00:03:54 Yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely worked, but uh, super happy to say we actually hit, um, getting off topic, but we actually hit 10,000 listens. Wow. Now as, uh, we encroach and, and, and are on our one year mark, which is super, super exciting for me. Um, very, very thankful to all our listeners, but we can get into that later. Why don't we get into it? Um, I wanna talk, we want to talk about obviously the hottest topic in real estate investing right now is the interest rates and how that affects all of us as investors and whatnot. And you being the guru, Justin underwrites, all of our deals, uh, here at APC, uh, especially on the commercial forefront, uh, where his years and years on bay street obviously help us out. So Justin buying an investment property now today, and we'll focus, I want to really focus more on, um, I guess the commercial side of things, um, apartment buildings that is, we've been speaking with some investors lately and, um, who are obviously feeling a little gun, shy, a little wearisome and, and whatnot by these obviously rising interest rates. And very common question is now the right time to buy. How would you answer that question?
Speaker 1 00:05:18 Okay, well be before I answer these questions in general, I think it's really important to make a disclaimer that, you know, real estate investors and buyers should make sure that they speak with their mortgage broker or their lender. Um, these people are very skillful at guiding people through a very specific situation, right? Uh, so I'm happy to provide my views of course, but they're very specific to, to my views and my experiences. Other people have views that are different than mine. Uh, so speak to your mortgage expert, your, your broker, whoever provides you funding, um, a good one is certainly worth their weight and gold. But I think to answer your question, you know, everyone has different risk tolerances. You know, it's hard to tell people not to be fearful. Uh, but I think a lot of savvy or very experienced investors are using periods like this to take advantage of the dislocation that we're seeing in, in the marketplace, you know, a very famous, um, investor named Warren buffet, which I'm sure everyone's heard of once said to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy when others are fearful.
Speaker 1 00:06:32 So we're certainly in that period where people are very fearful. I think that, uh, for the savvy investor, they're gonna be looking at deals very closely now because it could be a very good entry point for, for some deals. Um, having said that doesn't mean you just jump into the market, you have to go in wide, you know, eyes wide open. Um, you need to understand your risks, how much risk you're willing to take on once you understand what your risk tolerance is, you'll know what deals make sense and which ones don't make sense. Um, you know, I think a couple other things to remind people is that real estate is a long term investment and it can be a really good tool to achieve, you know, your financial or your long term financial goals. So, um, and of course you can always partner with someone that has experience and that'll help you reduce your risks. Uh, so for novice investors, partnering with someone I think is certainly a, a, uh, a really good way of, of doing it initially until you get more experience
Speaker 0 00:07:36 Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:07:36 <affirmative> and that certainly that's what I did.
Speaker 0 00:07:39 Right. Um, okay. So I guess to sum that up, it's really is now a good time to buy it's really up to the investor and its risk tolerance and what his goals are. Um, but do you see, obviously, and I think this is a loaded question, but do you see obviously, or do you know, the market shifted from, you know, the historical sellers market to a buyer's market, per se, in the ability to get some negotiating and some deals done now given where we are in the market and how it's really calmed down.
Speaker 1 00:08:22 Yeah. And I think it's, it's that where we've definitely shifted into a buyers market. It's very, very clear. I mean, um, volumes are down, prices are down, you know, you're hearing instances of deals falling apart. So a lot of sellers are nervous, but this is an advantage for buyers, the balls in, in the buyers court. At this point, you can set the terms that you want, whether the seller takes or not, we don't know, but, uh, I think that, um, you definitely have that opportunity to negotiate terms that are favorable for you as a buyer. Something that really didn't exist say six to nine months ago. Um, so I mean, I, I do think that things have switched pretty, pretty quickly, uh, for some sellers they still haven't reset their expectations. So, uh, you're gonna have to wait till they're, they're ready mentally to, to, to get a deal done sometimes. But I do think that there are sellers out there that have reset their expectations. They understand what kind of market we're in and for a buyer. It's a great thing.
Speaker 0 00:09:29 Yeah. I, I, and I couldn't agree more. And one thing I should have mentioned to our audience too, and I, I forgot, but, uh, for everybody listening, Justin is obviously a licensed realtor as well, uh, operating predominantly in the Toronto area in the GTA. Uh, do you want to quickly quickly touch on, you know, maybe what you've seen as of late in the Toronto market that you typically operate in?
Speaker 1 00:09:54 Yeah, it's, it's really, really slow. I mean, we have, uh, lots of buyers right now. They're not actually buying dessert. They're just waiting, uh, for that opportunity. I mean, a lot of our investors are pretty savvy investors and they see what's happening in the marketplace, but I think they're starting to shift now, like they're starting. Okay. Well, uh, the markets moved quite a bit in the last five months or so, and they're starting to really start to kick the tires pretty hard. So we're, we're starting to see some movement in terms of their head space. Um, and I think we're gonna get, be able to get some really good deals for them in the next called three to six months.
Speaker 0 00:10:34 I couldn't agree more. I, you know, obviously we operate predominantly in Hamilton and I grew the same. Uh, it's definitely slowed down a lot. Um, but, uh, the market is down, you know, uh, price wise as well. Competition's down. The ability to negotiate those deals is, is back on the table, which, you know, as you know, you and I are in the business of buying apartment buildings and, uh, having this time, I think is gonna be pretty exciting for us to navigate those waters and get a better deal that we would've got back in January of 2022. Would you not agree?
Speaker 1 00:11:19 I totally agree. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:11:22 Okay. Um, question, how would a savvy investor, um, adapt to such a drastic, I guess, impact as of late in the market? How do you adapt to that again with the mindset? Um, I still want to buy four more properties in 2022. How do you adapt to such a drastic change in the market?
Speaker 1 00:11:55 Um, I think, well, I think for, for buyers, you still have to be cautious, but opportunistic. So, you know, you need to do your due diligence, look at your risks, run your numbers really tightly. If you find a property that you like and it passes your due diligence, then go for it. Um, at the end of the day, again, these are investments that should grow in value over the next five to 10 years. And will there be volatility in the near term? Sure, absolutely. Uh, but I think 10 years from now, when you look back, you're gonna be pretty happy with, with your decisions. So, you know, again, I think you, you need to be cautious and just make sure you run your numbers, be very conservative with your forecasts. Um, but if you see the right opportunity, just be prepared to, to do it, to get it done. So be opportunistic
Speaker 0 00:12:47 Agreed. Um, I couldn't agree more with that. I, I think opportunities are here and will continue to be here. Like you said, for at least three to six months, um, run your numbers tight, but here's, here's the icing on the cake that I always tell people I'm working with the joint venture partners that I'm working with at the end of the day. Like you mentioned a few minutes back real, estate's a long term game. And, um, and you said 30 seconds ago, 10 years from now, you know, if you're able to capitalize on some great opportunities coming about now 10 years from now, I think you and me are on the same page. You're gonna be sitting really pretty mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. So I think that's the caveat too. If you're looking to flip, probably not a good time to flip, uh, given the market and the uncertainty in the market. Um, but if you're looking, if you're a long term hold generational wealth kind of investor, I think we're, it's gonna be really exciting times here for sure. All right. The rental market shift. Why don't we talk a little bit about that? So with what you've seen lately, and obviously you're a landlord and you, like we mentioned, you're about 115 units now doors. Um, how will tenants in the rental market overall be affected? What do you think, uh, be affected with these interest rate hikes that we've been experiencing?
Speaker 1 00:14:23 Yeah, well, I think every, uh, market is different and I, I certainly want to be respectful to your listeners cause I know that you have listeners from across the country. So obviously I can only comment on what I'm seeing here on the ground in Toronto and in, in Hamilton. Um, and as of right now, the rental market in these particular cities are really, really quite strong. And, and part of this is, is due to, as you suggested with, with interest rates rising, some of these would be buyers are either saying, you know, I can't afford to buy now I gotta stay in the rental market or they're just deciding, um, to stay in the rental market until they find that opportunity. So that's, that's certainly propping up the rental market. Um, but beyond, beyond that, of course, um, you know, there's a number of factors that have really helped the rental markets in Canada in, in Toronto Hamilton.
Speaker 1 00:15:24 Um, rising immigration is one, um, loosening of the pandemic restrictions. People are going back to the office and wanting to be closer to the financial core or the city core. And just the fact that there's not enough rental supply, like there's not enough units out there. Uh, there are, some of the factors are keeping this market very robust. I was looking at some numbers in Toronto today and in July there were something like 3,800 condos that were listed through the MLS system. And right now there's listings for, I think it's like 1800 and change. So,
Speaker 0 00:16:02 Wow.
Speaker 1 00:16:03 Yeah. That's why it's like the ratio of two to one. So you have less, less than two. Well, about two months of inventory of rental units of condos, that's just condos of course, um, on the MLS right now. So it's a very tight market and, um, you know, and we've, we work with landlords here as well, as well as with some tenants. And we're hearing stories where, you know, landlords are getting 6, 7, 8, 11 offers in one case that we were, we were involved with and where the tenants are, are paying, you know, 12 months of, of rent up front to secure the unit they want. So again, very, very tight right now. And it's a, it's a really good market right now for, for landlords rents are up roughly about 20% from where they were last year.
Speaker 0 00:16:53 Right. And I guess that will help offset the reduction, obviously in cash flow. Because as landlords, obviously your interest rates going up your cash, flow's gonna be less cuz your payments are more so that increase in rent. And obviously we're talking about new units, um,
Speaker 1 00:17:11 Uh, they can do that's a become yeah.
Speaker 0 00:17:14 Or yeah, units that become vacant and you re rent them. Um, up 20% will definitely help offset some of those, um, uh, reductions in cash flow, given the interest rates. So do you think, um, a lot of tenants will then stay put in vacancy rates may even go down because obviously, you know, if the media's gonna blow this up and we're gonna look at, if I'm a tenant and I know, wow, you know, let's just round it off and you know, uh, a two bedroom, it's gonna be a minimum of two, $2,000 a month, no matter what city I'm in, let's even go back to Hamilton. Um, and they're only paying $1,400 a month. They're probably not gonna leave anytime soon. What do you think that's gonna do to vacancy rates? I'm thinking they're gonna be down. What do you think?
Speaker 1 00:18:08 Uh, it's hard to say for sure. I mean, obviously there's a lot of factors that affect vacancy rates and it's, um, I think kind of ties to some of my earlier comments about immigration and supply of units, but yeah, you make a very good point that if, if rents keep going higher, a lot existing tends probably won't wanna move. So that's gonna keep the, the supply, uh, even lower mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I think, but, you know, I, I think if we head into a recession, uh, which some people are predicting, then things could change. I don't know. I mean, people could lose their jobs and they may need to, to move. Um, but on the flip side, people that can't afford their houses in terms of their ownership of a house because of mortgage and things may have to sell and move into a rental unit.
Speaker 1 00:18:56 So I think that might be a wash. So overall I think you're probably right. Um, particularly with immigration trends that rent like the vacancy rates will remain pretty low now. Um, CMHC and stats, Canada produce some pretty good historical data, uh, for, you know, if your listeners ever want to, to look it up, they provide very good data on vacancy rates by city, over a long period of time. So you can certainly do your research on a particular market. Um, some cities will fare better than others. Um, it's heavily dependent on what's happening in their local economy. So if a small town is highly dependent on one or two employers, if those employers start laying off people, then obviously your vacancy rates will go up. But in places like Toronto and Hamilton, you have very, very diverse industries and employers, I think they'll be much more stable.
Speaker 1 00:19:54 Uh, for example, as you know, most of my investments are in the Hamilton market. Um, and it has a very, very broad based and stable employment base. So nearly 35% of the people that work in Hamilton work for healthcare, uh, education and public service. So government, which are very, very stable over, over the, in economic cycles, whether the economy's doing well is doing poorly. Those people are employed. So in a city like that, where, where you have that kind of a broad based, um, very stable employment, I think will fair very well. And they'll keep, you know, the market tight.
Speaker 0 00:20:36 Yeah. I agree with you, for sure. For sure. Um, obviously, and I, I know this intimately because you and I are in the middle of a, a refinance on, um, some of our commercial buildings as we speak mm-hmm <affirmative> um, can we touch upon, uh, for our audience? What kind of things are we seeing now with respect to lenders and refinances on the bigger apartment, building acquisitions, CMHC, stuff like that? Uh, what are you seeing as far as what lenders are coming back, cap rates and, um, terms and, and, um, amortization, stuff like that, as of, and what interest rates are we getting? Uh, can you comment on that? What interest rates are we getting to on our exit, uh, with our refinances in our commercial space?
Speaker 1 00:21:33 Uh, well, I mean, obviously with there's a lot of things in the flux right now, uh, with the softness in the market and, and lenders are generally more cautious out there whether it's commercial or it's residential, um, appraisals are coming back lower than they were six months ago, given where comparable transactions are these days. And I mean, rising interest rates will have a negative impact on how much you can borrow. Um, and that's both true on, on the residential side as well as the commercial side. So cap rates are definitely going up a little bit. Um, and as you know, the, the, the qualification processes between the two are very, very different for commercial properties, it's based on, you know, what the, the property generates in terms of income. Um, so in a very general sense, I would say that rising interest rates are affecting, um, the mortgage markets or your ability to borrow.
Speaker 1 00:22:32 Having said that on the commercial side, what's very interesting is the way a lot of commercial mortgages, the rates are set and how they're, you know, how you, how it's determined in terms of how much you get on, on a, on a principal amount. So, as you know, residential mortgages are largely based on prime plus a rate or prime minus a rate, um, that can be the case for commercial mortgages as well, but what, for a lot of our CMHC refinance mortgages, they're based off the bond yield they're based on bond yields. So specifically the CMB or the Canada mortgage bond yield. So three months ago, the CMB was trading around 3.5% yield. Um, as you know, the bank of Canada in the last three months has raised interest rates about 150 basis points or, or about 200 basis points, actually. So 2%, uh, in the last three months.
Speaker 1 00:23:33 So you would think that the CMB yields would be higher. Uh, since that time they're actually flat to, as was looking at this morning, they're actually down, uh, from where we were three months ago. So, uh, right now it could be a situation where certain CMHC mortgages, for example, you could get a better rate today, uh, than you would have received three months ago. So we're right, actually, we're right now in the middle, in the middle of a CMHC financing, I'm just waiting to hear back from CMHC and see where, where they're gonna set our rate at. Uh, and we'll see, but I I'm, I'm pretty hopeful that what we were quoted initially three months ago could be either flat to down, even though interest rates are up like 200 basis points. So it's, it's pretty, um, it's quite different on the commercial side,
Speaker 0 00:24:25 Right. And cap rates. I can comment. I mean, we just, uh, did another deal. We're in the middle of a refinance and we got an appraisal done on a six unit, not the best area of town, probably a C plus area, uh, with, with still a lot of promise to, uh, to go. Um, and we got on a six unit, uh, the appraisal came back at a four and a half cap, um, is what they valued it at. So for anybody out there looking at apartment buildings, um, maybe put that in your toolbox, but yeah, every situation's different and whatnot obviously, but that's a little bit of what I can share in relation to that. Um, so can, I guess, again, these are all opinionated answers for the most part, um, based on our level of experience in the market and what we've done in our careers. Um, can we say, or is it really risky to try and say what interest rates we can get on a CMHC exit for a 10 unit apartment building?
Speaker 1 00:25:40 Uh, yeah. I mean, you can make assumptions, right. And
Speaker 0 00:25:44 Well, let's assume.
Speaker 1 00:25:46 Yeah. So we it's, it's all about making assumptions, but making, you know, qualified or educated assumptions. So for most of my refinances that I'm looking at now on the commercial side, I'm using anywhere between four and a half to 5% interest rate. Um, now I think maybe it's a little bit lower than we, what, what, I'm, what I'm using right now. Like I think if we were to do a CMHC, now, it might be maybe a little bit lower than 4.5%. Um, but I don't, like, I don't know what, what rates are gonna be 12 months from now. So it's always better to side on the cautious side of things and have a positive surprise when you are actually doing the refinance. So it's always, I that's, you know, under promise over deliver is my kind of model for, for these types of refinances. And when I use the, um, one of why kind of crunching the numbers.
Speaker 0 00:26:46 Yeah. I agree with you, I'd rather be ultra conservative, especially in these times. And mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, under promise over deliver, like you save all day long. Um, so without having a crystal ball and everybody wishes as a realtor and as an investor and as a joint venture partner, everybody wishes, we had crystal balls. Where do you see, where do you see this market in a year from now? The commercial apartment building
Speaker 1 00:27:22 Commercial? Yeah, I think, um, I think most of the people I speak with, and again, I mean, I, I I'm, you know, I, I know what I know, but there's a lot of things I don't know. And trying to predict where interest rates are gonna go is a mugs game, in my opinion. But if you look at what's happening with the bond market, if you talk to certain mortgage brokers that are really in tune with what's happening out there, they're thinking that rates will continue to rise this year. Um, but we'll probably see them start to pull back. And I don't know when that's gonna happen. I mean, the, the last person I spoke with thinks that by the end of 2023, they could come back a little bit. If you watch other experts on, on, on, on TV though, they'll say, you know, maybe in middle of next year, we'll see rates start to come back again.
Speaker 1 00:28:13 I think there's a lot of things in flux with what's happening with, um, inflation. Inflation's gotten a little bit outta control over the last year, and there are some expectations that inflation's going to start to peak here and start to come down. So that will maybe allow the, the banks to ease off on the interest rate hikes mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and maybe we head into a bit of a slowdown or a recess of some sort, which will slow things down. And then of course the banks will have to reverse and start to lower rates once, once, uh, growth slows down too much. So if I were a betting man rate at this point, I would think that within a year's time rates could be either the same and maybe start to start coming back down at that point. So, um, that's kind of my expectations at this point, but if I were being conservative, I would say they're probably gonna stay where they are for now. And then just kind of in the back of my mind, hope that, uh, that they start to come down.
Speaker 0 00:29:14 Yeah, I agree with you. So given that information, let's say we're in this for at least a year, you know, maybe potentially more 18 months or whatnot. Um, given that information, um, how would you suggest investors stay motivated, um, to continue purchasing these properties and, and, and whatnot. How, if you were a, a mentor or a JV partner for, for, for somebody who picked your brain on that, how would, how do you stay motivated as a, as a buyer? Even though we touched a little on this at the start of the show that yeah, we're on a buyer's market now, can you elaborate on, on, or what advice you would give to stay motivated and obviously still be cautious,
Speaker 1 00:30:03 Right? Yeah. I think, um, people are motivated for different things, you know, for some it's about lifestyle, uh, maintaining a certain lifestyle for others, it's about creating something lasting for their family, their kids, or the grandkids. Uh, so whatever motivates you, I think you need to focus on that and understand that real estate is a great tool or vehicle to achieve a long lasting wealth. Uh, if you look at some of the wealthiest people in the world and they may not have initially created their wealth through real estate, but have become very large holders of real estate as they became wealthy. Um, so, you know, for example, I'm not sure if you read about the founder of Zara, you know, the big, um, clothing chain.
Speaker 0 00:30:53 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:30:54 The Spanish guy. So he's become obviously a multi, multi billionaire, uh, while he's been on a major buying spree for, for real estate. And he recently bought, for example, Royal bank Plaza, which are the two gold office towers in downtown Toronto, uh, landmark type buildings. I think he paid close to 1.2 billion for those, and he's grown his real estate portfolio to over 15 billion in the last five years. Um, these are very sophisticated investors, um, who are using real estate to maintain, uh, and diversify their portfolios and their wealth generate income and preserve capital. So, you know, if they can do it, I think we can do it too, just obviously on a much, much smaller scale.
Speaker 0 00:31:46 Yeah, for sure. Great advice, Justin. And, you know, if I can, if I can comment further comment on that, in my opinion, again, going back to the long term game of real estate investing and, um, you know, uncertain times again, as a long term investor, the beauty I have is, uh, that generational wealth mindset of I can refinance this property one time, three times, four times as the market continues to improve and go up and value. So on and so forth over years to come, you know, caution to all those investors out there who think, oh, so I may leave, you know, a hundred grand or 200 grand in a property, um, based on the changing market here and there, you very many well do that, but you know what guys at the end of the day, is it really the end of the world? In my opinion, no. Um, because that money is not, it's not like you pay the stock market and you know, that stock went belly up and the money's gone, even if we're leaving a little bit of money in a property because of the change in the market. Um, is it really the end of the world? I say, no,
Speaker 1 00:33:08 No, no. I agree with you. And, and I think one, some, one of the strategies that we're, we're looking at, and this is for CMHC type of, uh, of mortgages commercial mortgages on the refinances that we may do a, an initial CMHC before a building is fully rehabbed or renovated and stabilized, get that CMHC, uh, mortgage in place to keep our, our caring costs lower. And then as we turn over more units in 12 months or 18 months, we can apply or have a, a secondary mortgage with the same lender on CMHC and then take out additional capital, uh, at that point. So, you know, I, I, I would agree that I think some investors need to be, um, they need to understand that they may not get all their capital back out on the, on the first goal, given what's happening with the rates mm-hmm <affirmative> and everything else, but in two years time or three years time, when, when rates really come back down again, there's gonna be an opportunity to, to, you know, maybe take out a secondary, um, at that point.
Speaker 1 00:34:19 Um, so there's, there's a lot of flexibility there. I think, again, working with, with a, a mortgage broker that knows what they're doing and, and understands that kind of landscape would, would be helpful. And the other comment that I would make on, you know, CMHC is that the big advantage with working with CMHC on the commercial side is, as you, you mentioned earlier about the amortization, I forgot to really talk about it, but they give you a lot of flexibility with, with amortization. So, uh, you know, for you can all day, all night, you can get 30 to 40 year amortizations on CMHC insured, commercial mortgages, um, versus typically 25 years, maybe 30 years on, on conventional mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. So the, the higher amortizations really, really help with the cash flow, uh, of your property. And, and there are certain programs within CMHC, if you qualify for them, that can get you up to 50 years amortization. So it's pretty incredible. What, what can be done if you, if you can qualify for those types of mortgages.
Speaker 0 00:35:22 Yeah, for sure. 50 year a like that's drastically gonna make a difference in your payments, which will ultimately make a, in your cash flow. Yeah. So on and so forth. So, yeah, I, I couldn't agree more with you. So
Speaker 1 00:35:34 The, the only thing with, with CMHC obviously is the amount of upfront work involved in getting it across the finish line. I mean, these things typically take anywhere between four and six months to complete. So they're very time consuming. Uh, they require a lot, a lot of documentation. So you just need to be super organized with all your documents. You have to provide, um, a lot of financials, performance forecasts. So you need to have your numbers pretty tight. So, but if you can do all that, if you're that type of person then, or if you work with like a, a broker that can put that together for you, then it's definitely worth it.
Speaker 0 00:36:15 Yeah. Couldn't agree more for sure. Mm-hmm <affirmative> all right. Well, I think that's it, Paul, uh, we're at 36 minutes, I try to keep it to around 30 to 35 for that drive home from work or drive two to work for our listeners and whatnot to, to tune in. So, uh, yeah. Awesome advice. Thank you for joining us again. Um, and obviously for those of you out there, Justin and I are our business partners with a lot of our acquisitions and, um, having him in our corner, running our numbers is obviously a, a, a real bonus for peace of mind for me, um, to make sure that, uh, obviously our joint venture partners are taken care of our numbers are good. Our numbers are tight and in a market like this, it couldn't be more important to, to have that in your corner. So Justin, if people want to get a hold of you and talk to you about potential partnerships and, or, uh, you know, real estate investing in the apartment, building space, how do they do that?
Speaker 1 00:37:20 Uh, you can go to our, my, my realtor website is J woo. So JWU real estate.com. And my email is just Justin J woo real estate.com. So that's probably the easiest way to, to reach out.
Speaker 0 00:37:35 Awesome. Yeah. So everybody out there pick his brain. If you're looking to get into the apartment building space, um, reach out to him, uh, he's a wealth of knowledge with respect to the numbers and, uh, can definitely steer you in the right direction. Um, and obviously for myself, anybody that's looking to engage in conversation with me about some of our upcoming opportunities, joint venture properties, some off market deals we have on the go by all means. Shoot me an email, Adrian, a D R I a N, invest with epc.com. Love to hear from you. Definitely, uh, can bring it to speed on everything we have going on some great opportunities, some pretty exciting opportunities, actually given this shift in market, we're still out there, we're still buying. We're just being a little bit more cautious if, if, if I could say so on that note, have an awesome long weekend and, uh, till we talk again.
Speaker 1 00:38:36 Great. Thank
Speaker 0 00:38:37 You. Thanks again.
