Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hey everyone. It's Adrian. Penoza here with the mortar life real estate investing podcast. And just before we get into our episode and episode, number 25, super stoked about that already wanted to touch. You know, a lot of investors are calling up emailing, calling and, and, and asking me what, what should they do given the shift in the market? We all know we're in a shift right now. That's overwhelmingly obvious. What do we do, Adrian? Should we buy now? Should we wait? What should we do? So I recently released, uh, just this last week on our social media, a video, basically with the numbers. I, I, I took the time to look at the stats, um, in the Hamilton market and surrounding areas, but predominantly Hamilton out in that neck of the woods. And essentially from January to now, the we've seen an increase of just over two times the amount of active listings available on the market.
Speaker 0 00:01:05 So obviously it's pretty straightforward guys. Um, if inventory is high and demand is down, which it is right, at least two times the amount of listings going on right now compared to January we're north of 1200 listings, um, at the end of April. And if I remember correctly at the end mid-January we were sitting at around 450. So we're almost double the amount of inventory out there right now, which means, uh, what we're seeing is less competition, less bidding wars, less people coming to the table. So on and so forth, although prices are still up and way up from last year. Um, there is that shift and meaning we have shifted more towards a favorable, uh, buyer's market, as opposed to the historical seller's market that we've experienced in the last year and a half to two years. So what would I do as a buyer?
Speaker 0 00:02:08 I'm super, super excited to continue to buy now because obviously, you know, competition isn't there prices have slightly come down, you can put in your clauses again, as far as your financing or home inspection, stuff like that. And all that kind of good stuff that, you know, back in January, historically over the last year and a half conditions in an offer, never like you, you were just saying, there's no way you were coming to the table without a clean offer and obviously over asking. But now we're back into that, that, that market that we have that flexibility and time to do a home inspection to, uh, have that financing condition and whatnot. So to answer your question, everybody, what are we doing here at APC? We are buying like crazy <laugh> we are buying like crazy, cuz again, like I tell everybody, nobody has a crystal ball, but if the numbers work and when we're running our numbers, they work now as well.
Speaker 0 00:03:08 And if the numbers work, pull the trigger and we are still buying very aggressively and more favorably in this shift in this market. So if you're a buyer and you're looking to get into real estate and you're looking to invest, Hey, need some advice, need me to answer your questions, gimme a shout, send me an email, shoot me a message over social media. We're very easy to find. Definitely can steer you in the right direction and give you some free advice, um, that could potentially help you down the road or short term, long term, whatever the case may be on that note. Um, let's get into our upcoming guest. Hey, everyone at Adrian, Penoza here with the mortal to life real estate investing podcast, where we teach you to get more to life. So you can start living your dreams through the power of real estate investing super Stok today.
Speaker 0 00:04:04 Guys, our guest today is Josh Stevenson, um, who is a property investor in a really Ontario. So not too far from us. He and his business partner, Brent Peterson, along with their wives own a very successful company called invest north, which holds now 95 doors valued at just over 20 million, uh, in Aurelia Sunbridge north bay cobalt, new LIS guard. Uh, Josh retired from his grade eight teaching job in November of 2020 after a 20 year career that took him to South Korea, Japan, Czech Republic, Taiwan, Australia. This guy's been around <laugh>. And finally back to Ontario, uh, Josh and his business partner managed 55 of their 95 doors themselves. Um, and they have managed to build their portfolio with absolutely no joint venture partners or other investors up until now. Um, Josh has used the no money down deals with the help of different credit unions, um, and vendor take back mortgages in order to grow and expand his business. He is married to the author, Jessica Hamilton, the author, the author of the thriller, what you never knew and her upcoming book don't, you dare wife, live with their two children in and are really in Ontario. So without that all being said without further delay, Josh, welcome to the mortal life real estate investing podcast.
Speaker 1 00:05:53 Well, thank you so much for having me on Adrian. I'm very excited. Um, it's, it's a brilliant sunny day out there. I think it's in the high twenties at least. Holy cow. What have you got there?
Speaker 0 00:06:03 Yeah, we're at 27. It's showing on my computer. Yeah. Yesterday, a little warmer, but uh, yeah, this is definitely, uh, heading in the right direction. That's for sure.
Speaker 1 00:06:13 Certainly. I feel like I just crawled out from under a rock and I'm getting some sun on me for the first time in ages, but uh, what a treat for us Ontario guys? Eh,
Speaker 0 00:06:22 Absolutely. So Josh into it, pretty straightforward. I got, I'm actually really thrilled to get into it because our, our business models, although we both invest in real estate and we both have a great size portfolio, you pretty much do the opposite of what me and my company do with respect to we really JV on a high level. And you do the opposite where you've built a very impressive portfolio, um, without any JV partners. So, um, tell us about your journey. Tell us about how, how did this start and how you managed to navigate through, you know, no JV partners,
Speaker 1 00:07:04 Right. Okay. Um, well, a couple I it's life is very strange at times and, uh, <laugh> the reason I got into, uh, both teaching and, uh, being an income property guy are, are both kind of odd coincidental things, but I'll, I'll tell you the, the, the short version of both. Um, uh, I became a teacher because, uh, when I was 15 years old, I was, uh, driving my, my dirt bike on the highway. <laugh> you're a former cop. Aren't you? <laugh>?
Speaker 0 00:07:33 I am, yes,
Speaker 1 00:07:34 They were. You go. So I dealt with some of you guys in the past. Yeah. Um, so I got, I actually got, I got hit driving my dirt bike to a, to the trails I was going to. And, uh, you know, I broke some ribs and I was in the hospital for a while, but this is right before no fault insurance came in. This is like in like 80, oh goodness, maybe 87 or something. I was like a 15 year old kid. And, uh, the, the person that, that hit me in the truck, uh, he, he ended up suing me for $10,000. And because I was a minor, um, <laugh>, my dad had to pay the $10,000. And my dad said, Josh, when you get old enough and when you finish university, you're gonna pay me all this money back, cuz I taught you better than this.
Speaker 1 00:08:16 And you know, I want you to teach you a lesson. I said, okay, well, you know, uh, when I'm done university, that's a million million, uh, miles away. And uh, of course I graduated a mere six, six years later when I was 21, I graduated with a degree and my dad asked me for the money and I didn't have any money. So in the newspaper, this is before the internet, uh, I saw it in my local, uh, packet in times or really a newspaper. It said, come and teach English in Korea. And I thought, wow, they're paying American dollars. I think they're paying like, you know, like 3000 American dollars a month. And I thought that was a ton of money. So I went over to, to Korea and I, I taught there and I absolutely in love with teaching. So, uh, over the years I taught in, in Japan and Korea and Taiwan and the Czech Republic.
Speaker 1 00:09:02 And when I had, uh, my fill of that, I came back to Canada and I opened my very own English language school on queen street. And, uh, we taught people English from all over the world, people from, uh, Asia and from south America and Eastern Europe. And we had a really good business going there cuz I have a very, um, kind of an entrepreneurial spirit. And unfortunately in uh, 2001 we had the nine 11 attacks and that scared all my students away. And then we also had SARS. Now SARS is kind of reminiscent of, of what we've just gone through with, with COVID and the one, two punch of SARS and the nine 11 attacks, uh, uh, drove all of my students away because they thought, you know, the w H O had put out a travel advisory against Toronto saying it's not safe. Get your kids home.
Speaker 1 00:09:55 So all these, these wealthy kids, they went back to their home countries and I lost my school. So at that point I thought I was 30 years old at the time. And I thought, oh my God, here I am with like, you know, not, not a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of. So I, I ended up, uh, at that point becoming a conventional teacher because I'd been teaching for so many years prior to that. So I, I taught grade eight for, uh, 15 years, but, um, being a teacher is, is a wonderful, uh, career and I, I loved it to death, but I also still had that entrepreneurial spirit. And in the summers I would, uh, I would teach summer school. And I would, uh, sometimes, uh, before I became a, a full-fledged contract teacher with the Simco county district school board, I taught people that got injured on a job site that needed to get their G E D.
Speaker 1 00:10:47 And uh, sometimes I would have a chance to read book while they're doing their work. I would, I would have a little bit of time to read books and I was walking in the library one day at the Eure public library. And I saw, uh, a book called, uh, building wealth, one house at a time. And I pulled it off the shelf. This is before I even owned one house. I pulled this book off the shelf and, uh, I think it was, it is written by Charles Schwab. And I, I leaped through this book and I, I read about this guy who built this multimillion dollar portfolio, just buying one single family home at a time. And I was, it, it was like the light bulb went off. I thought, holy cow, why, why am I not doing this? And why, why aren't, you know, every person I know should be doing this.
Speaker 1 00:11:30 And, um, before I knew it, uh, my wife and I bought a duplex in Barry and we lived in, uh, the upstairs because, uh, we could rent the downstairs, uh, out for more. And we had, uh, we had, uh, our first child, our son, Luke, and we lived upstairs and, and rented out downstairs and that paid for everything. And I thought this is a no brainer. Right. And, uh, um, from there we house hacked, uh, we moved to, uh, a really Ontario where real estate was even cheaper and we house hacked again. I, I bought a big family home and I, I turned it into a duplex and we repeated that. And that's how we really got our start. Um, I think, you know, both you and I have had a lot of luck with the market helping us out. Like I, I have lived through some insane appreciation.
Speaker 1 00:12:18 So these houses that I house hacked, uh, gained, you know, in appreciation tremendously, and I'm talking like doubling and tripling, I was buying these things for, uh, like triple plexus for $200,000 and, uh, duplexes for $180,000. And, and now, you know, they turned into, you know, $500,000 buildings, $600,000 buildings. So I kept taking the equity and I kept buying new things. And, uh, the Berry market got very hot. Then I moved to Australia. The, the early market got very hot. And then I, I thought, okay, things are, things are a little bit outta whack in terms of achieving the 1% rule. What else we got up the road, I took out a map next big city up the road was north bay, Ontario. So, uh, before all this crazy appreciation hit north bay, we went up there. And at the same time, I had one of my childhood friends move back from Lethbridge, Ontario.
Speaker 1 00:13:18 And he was, he was actually working on the, uh, the pipeline. So he, his home base was in Lethbridge, but he, he worked, uh, way up in, uh, by Fort McMurray. He did these awful shifts and he finally came home with a whole bucket of money and no desire to live, to work in the oil fields again, <laugh> and, uh, he saw what I, what, what I was doing. He said, Hey, man, I got a bunch of money. You got a bunch of money. Why don't we join forces, create a corporation and just buy up whatever we can. And we did that just before, uh COVID we did in the years prior to COVID and we, we bought 40 units in north bay and they have subsequently exploded in value. And then we took that money. And when we felt that north bay market was getting a little too hot, we took out the map again, and we looked up the road and, and up there, we have the Tri-Town area, cobalt, uh, Tomi shores and, and, uh, new Lisker, three little towns and a little, uh, kind of area up on lake to miscuing.
Speaker 1 00:14:16 And we started buying stuff up there. And then we started buying stuff in little surrounding areas in, in Ruther, Glen sturgeon falls. Uh mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, even further up north, like deep river type thing. So, uh, we just kind of stayed ahead of the prices. We stayed ahead of these price appreciations, and we've been entirely fortunate. I, I, I must, uh, I must have done something in my previous life. That was good because, uh, we were, we were literally in the right place at the right time. Um, but we did work our butts off and, and we reached out to everybody and anybody who would lend us money, anybody, and everybody who would give us a tip on a good real estate deal. Pounded the pavement got off market deals, worked with tons of different lenders, uh, mortgage brokers, credit unions. We did, you know, we borrowed some private money here and there, but, uh, we always kept it in house. We always kept it with me and Brent and, uh, our wives and we've, we've never had to, uh, look outside, uh, and we've had lots of people at this point, uh, offer us JV money and I'm not counting it out because your model is super impressive too. Like, holy cow, you got three times what I got and more, um, and that's, that's something that we're keeping the door open for, but at, at this particular moment, we've just kept it all in house, uh, just with the, the partners
Speaker 0 00:15:37 Amazing now. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and it all started, it all started with picking a book off a shelf.
Speaker 1 00:15:43 Exactly it, wow. Yeah. That right. Yeah. And there's something to be said for people that hang out in libraries. Like I, you know, I was a school teacher for years, but I mean, um, just walking down, I just used to walk down the aisles and pick up books that looked interesting to me. And I, I think if I had not picked up that book at that particular moment, I wouldn't be here today. Um, I'd have a totally different life. It wouldn't be horrible, but it wouldn't be this awesome either. So, I mean, uh, here's the libraries, here's the reading here's to being a lifelong learner. Right.
Speaker 0 00:16:14 Amazing. Yeah. Amazing Josh. Um, so everybody, listening's probably wondering, and I'm wondering too, um, how okay. For the purchase, you're raising money through different avenues, vendor, takebacks private loans, whatever, whatever, whatever, but as far as being able to qualify now on that mortgage, um, are you getting a conventional mortgage after all for that purchase? You know, you're pulling equity from wherever you are. Okay. Now you're gonna go buy the next one. How are you qualifying for all these different properties?
Speaker 1 00:16:52 Well, it, it is completely different having things in your own name and then owning things in a corporation. And we we've had, we have two different corporations cuz we loaded up one corporation with so many buildings that our lawyers said to us. Hey, uh, if you ever had anybody Sue you, or if you had a, you know, a liability with this corporation that can be wiped out. So we opened a second corporation, uh, because you never want to have all your eggs in one basket. Right. Right. And, and my wife and I, we have a, a number of buildings in our own name, uh, as well, but uh, with a corporation like, and we, you know, we have bigger stuff. Like we own a little comm uh, retirement community in Sund Ridge, Ontario, and there's 14 bungalows there. Um, and we have, uh, you know, uh, six plaques, uh, tons of five plexes.
Speaker 1 00:17:40 And, uh, we have a, a seven Plex just so outside of town, it's an old, uh, public school. The Utah public school is converted into units. And when you, uh, when you're buying a larger building like that, particularly with a corporation, um, the, the lending organization or the institution looks at that instead of you and your debt to income ratio, you know, is the building is looked at as the business in itself, does it cash flow? Um, what are you gonna put down on it? Is there gonna be money enough to pay your, your mortgage? And is there gonna be money enough to pay, um, that, uh, vendor takeback mortgage, which is the second mortgage and, uh, because Brent and I are, are pretty good at finding deals. And a lot of these, a lot of these were off market deals, too, just talking to the right guy at the right time. Um, there was enough cash flow to satisfy, uh, the lending institution's demands and we deal with mostly credit unions at this point. And as long as the number, as long as the numbers work, they are completely happy to lend you, uh, the money for the building. Um, but you have to find the cash flow in buildings, which has become more of a challenge in recent years, as you can imagine.
Speaker 0 00:18:50 Yeah. So, okay. No, that's really crystal clear. We do the same thing, obviously, I guess. Um, I was more, I, I should have asked, um, your portfolio then. Is it more, um, multifamilies five plus units as opposed say duplexes?
Speaker 1 00:19:10 Well, we started off with, um, duplexes, plexes. Um, we don't, well actually one of our most recent purchases, still a Plex, but we, we try and get like, uh, anything, five units and above, uh, can be deemed commercial. Right? Yeah. And we pay a little bit more money, uh, in an interest rate, like a, a commercial kind of interest rate. Um, but that allows, you know, more, more flexibility in terms of, um, you know, the bank or the lending institution, uh, you know, just awarding you the mortgage on the way that the building performs. Right. So that has been kind of our go-to move as of late. And I think if you get to a certain point, every deal's specific, right. But I mean, um, you, you want to get into the bigger stuff and, uh, I think moving forward, uh, we will be going for strictly stuff.
Speaker 1 00:20:01 That's, you know, maybe six and up, uh, even we we've been looking at, you know, much larger buildings now because you reach a certain point where you kind of wanna graduate to the next level. Absolutely. And, and, uh, you know, it's great to, um, have all these, these duplexes and plexes and fourplexes, but that's a lot of roofs, right? That's a lot of furnaces. That's a lot of appliances <laugh> and, uh, to have a lot of stuff, uh, under one roof seems to be our preferred kind of go-to move. Now I actually saw, um, something on social media that you, you are actually teaching something to this effect, which I think is great.
Speaker 0 00:20:39 Oh yeah, yeah. We have, um, a webinar series. Our next episode is in June, um, first week of June. Um, yeah. And it's really centered on multifamily. Right. Uh, what's it, why is multifamily the golden goose of estate investing? Yeah. So we're putting that on next month. That's awesome. Uh, Josh, because that's exactly like, I wanna say 80% of our 370 doors are, uh, probably 75% are the residential platform. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and that's how we started too with the plexes and the fourplexes and the ES. And as of late us as well, you know, scaling to the next level, so to speak, um, we're now focusing as well on the bigger acquisitions, um, you know, the twelves, the tens, the eights actually last, just the end of 2021, we closed on a, um, 45 unit, um, nice purpose built building, which was a big one.
Speaker 0 00:21:43 Um, so yeah, definitely getting in that space. And I agree with you, the lending on that commercial multi-family structure or, or, uh, platform is much easier than the residential qualifying, because like you said, it goes to the building, they're not qualifying Josh per se. They're qualifying the building, the cash flow, the NOI, all that stuff. And you know, based on that, you may obviously before, again, we're, we're doing bur our, company's doing the burs at a high level. So obviously they may give you, um, in my experience, uh, they may give you an stabilized building. They may give you, you know, 65, 70% loan to value, but then on the back end for us typically on the exit, we have no problem getting up to that 80, 85% LTV mm-hmm <affirmative> after it's stabilized, the new rents are there, obviously we've increased the NOI mm-hmm <affirmative> and whatnot. But yes, I, I completely agree one roof to house, but everybody starts somewhere. And just like you did, we did the same thing. You know, my very first purchase was a duplex, uh, one up, one down cookie cutter, very simple. And then 10 years later, here we are. And how many years have you been in it now?
Speaker 1 00:23:00 15, actually. Um, but I, you know, I started off slowly, like, uh, I was always a school teacher for like thir 13 and a half of my 15 years. I was a school teacher. So I would go to, uh, to work in the morning and I, I taught grade eight for, um, uh, 15 years. Uh, and have you met a, a 14 year old lately? <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:23:23 They're lovely. They're lovely. Yeah, but I mean, they're, they're challenging, right? Because they got the, the hormones going and they, their frontal cortex isn't completely wired up yet and they make some question this ISS. So, you know, that's a, that's a high energy job and I did a ton of coaching, right. I, I coached, uh, basketball and, and, uh, volleyball and all these other sports. So I took up a long, a lot of my time. And then I would have to do, uh, I come home, you know, after teaching and then coaching and being some tournament. And I, I coached rep sports, cuz my son's in a basketball and then you have to go and, you know, deal with the leaky toilet or you have to go, uh, deal with the furnace that isn't working. So, um, 13 and a half years of that was, uh, a, a bit of a grind.
Speaker 1 00:24:08 So I, their portfolio had reached a point where I had to choose one or the other. Um, and now, uh, what we're doing is we're trying to, we do have a property manager, we've offloaded our 40, uh, units in north bay. This he's, he's a, he's a good guy and he's doing a great job. Uh, we've got contractors working for us. So we are transitioning from doing absolutely everything ourselves to farming it out. And it's a process to get these systems in place. And this is why I hear about it. Um, you know, on podcasts and, and people that have been in the industry for a long time. Um, if you really wanna scale, you can't do it all yourself. Right. Um, so I mean, I'm this year we're kind of, uh, slowing down the acquisition rate and just farming stuff out to people, finding the right people to do the right things. Um, and I, I think that's the, the only way you can scale effectively and, and, you know, not die in 18 months of <laugh> work overload,
Speaker 0 00:25:04 Right. Work, overload, stress, and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agree more, leverage your time in order for you to not only enjoy and reap the rewards of all your hard work, but also continue to grow because it gets to a certain level when you have so many doors, if you're doing it all yourself and you're focused on trying to keep up with all that day to day, um, mundane little tasks that still take up a lot of your time, how on God's green earth? Are you gonna focus on grabbing, you know, the next, uh, 15 or 20 unit or, you know, for us even just, uh, being able to keep myself free, to be able to attract new, um, joint venture partners or find that next acquisition off market, as you say, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, someone once told me pay somebody that 15, $20 an hour to do the 15, $20 an hour job focus on the big picture where you could use that time to make, you know, the next three, the next three deals happen, which ultimately, you know, could be prove, prove to be very, very, uh, generous and profitable.
Speaker 0 00:26:17 If you will. I'm assuming your model too. Are you guys more of a, uh, long term wealth buy in hold? Yeah. Um, as opposed to flipping,
Speaker 1 00:26:28 Uh, yeah, we, we don't flip, uh, I've in, in my, uh, 15 years I've sold, uh, one single family home and I've sold a duplex, but everything like, uh, that's of my 28 buildings, uh, of our 28 buildings or 26, we still have. So, um, yeah, we're buying hold guides and, um, that the, you know, a lot of people, uh, tell us, you know, you should get into flipping or, or, or you should get into, um, rent to own, or you should get into this or that. Um, <laugh>, I I'm in favor of simplicity and, uh, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. Yeah. Um, we've been entirely successful using this model, and I'm not saying that we will, uh, we will always do this. We might stray from it a bit, but I mean, um, if you have a model that works and it's, and it's, it's been, uh, proven time after time to, to get you the results you want.
Speaker 1 00:27:21 Um, I, I think we're, we're gonna stick with this for, for the foreseeable future. Um, and you know, I'm often faced with the, the, the dilemma. Do I sell this building in order to acquire some, some better assets or a variety of assets or do I refi it? Um, if you take, you know, if you refi a building, all of that money, you're not paying tax on, right. Uh, right away anyway, so that that's a whole, like I'm talking like hundreds of thousands of dollars. So you, you're moving hundreds of thousands of dollars into new assets and you're hanging on to the existing asset, which is continues to appreciate. So I always urge people and I do, I do coach, but I I've never charged for coaching. I have people, uh, call me all the time. Here's my situation, Josh. I got a couple duplexes and I want this, should I, should I refinance?
Speaker 1 00:28:09 Or should I sell? And I said, listen, if you can hang onto it. And if the thing is not driving you completely up the wall, hang onto it because you have this extra building that could possibly appreciate, you know, between five and 22%, depending which way the wind blows. So I always encourage people to hold onto as many assets as they can. Um, I have been fortunate enough to, to come into contact with some landlords, uh, that get to 65 or, you know, they're 68 years old and they wanna now offload them. And I could see that in my future too. And, uh, I've been on the receiving end of, of getting those assets that they they've unloaded. And I'm sure that at some point I wanna kind of empty my portfolios to an extent, but, you know, I'm still a relatively young person and I've got the energy to do it. So, and I'm smart enough to hopefully find the team to, uh, to do it. So I don't have to do absolutely everything. So yeah, I'm into, to delegating and buy and hold is our tried and true method.
Speaker 0 00:29:08 Beautiful. Yeah. Same as us. I mean, if're cash flow. It's carrying itself. You're not, it's not driving you up the wall. You can refi and pull the money out. Like you said, tax free, redeploy that yeah. Um, into other acquisitions and continue to grow, like it's, it's really, it's a carbon copy of what we do and it's a no brainer. A hundred percent couldn't agree. One
Speaker 1 00:29:30 Mm-hmm <affirmative> and you're just gonna, sorry, go on.
Speaker 0 00:29:33 No, no, no. Finish off.
Speaker 1 00:29:34 Oh, I, I, I said, and I just encourage, um, your listeners to just get your foot in the door. Like, um, this stuff, it, it, like, it took me 15 years. You've obviously been doing it for quite some time too. And, uh, you know, don't compare yourself to the guy with the 300 or whatever doors you got, or the, my 95, you know, compare yourself to, to who you were yesterday. So, you know, you got your first income properly. That is a huge accomplishment. And, and maybe in another six or seven months, you can, you can, uh, secure another one. Uh, but if it's the snowball effect, it's the cumulative effect cuz you and I are able to do these big moves because we've been at it forever. Um, so I, I, I don't want young people or people getting, just getting into this to get discouraged. Oh, how am I ever gonna get to a hundred doors? Or how am I ever gonna get to, you know, X amount of doors, uh, just start with your first door and or maybe your first three doors. And, uh, you will be shocked, uh, how that snowballs into something fairly substantial. And then the kind, the world is your oyster. It, it really opens up to you.
Speaker 0 00:30:38 Yeah. Um, and it reminds me when you say, you know, don't get discouraged if you're thinking or you hear somebody who has all these doors. I remember sitting in, uh, an investor, uh, conference, uh, probably I was a year into real estate investing. And I think at that time I may have had six doors give or take. And I remember sitting in this conference and these two guys got on stage. I can't remember their names for the life of me, but I remember them middle aged guys. And, um, they get, they get on stage and they start delivering their presentation. And I remember them saying, you know, and however many years they were at it, you know, they were at, um, a hundred doors. And I remember sitting in the audience going, thinking exactly Joshua, what you just said, thinking, oh my God, can you imagine what it would be like to be able to say, I own a hundred doors.
Speaker 0 00:31:41 It almost sounded. And like you said, you know, don't get discouraged, but it almost sounded UN unreachable for me, just it'd be, it was like a pipe dream. It's like, wow. Yeah. As if can I like imagine saying I own a hundred doors. Yeah, good luck with that. <laugh> like, I'm, I'm just a cop working my night shifts and whatnot. And I, but you know, I praise these guys thinking they were God, and I can't remember their names, but, and now, like you said, you know, you'd be amazed. You'd be amazed how quickly it could snowball. I never thought in my wildest dreams, you know, our company would, uh, you know, be up to 370 doors. Woo. And I thought looking at these guys a hundred doors, oh my God, congratulations. Like, that's incredible. And I'll never see that, but cools to you guys. So to your point, Josh, 100% the, the, the sky's the limit, right?
Speaker 0 00:32:41 The world's your oyster, like never say never. Um, and you'd be amazed how quickly it snowballs. So. Awesome. Yeah. One last question on that note before, um, we get into the next subject here, but outta curiosity, where do you see yourself going in the next few years, uh, growing in this market space that you're in, do you continue to see yourselves pedal to the metal and, and continue to grow, going, diversifying other locations, taking your money to Alberta? Like where do you see yourself? Where do you see your company invest north in the next couple of years?
Speaker 1 00:33:19 That's a, that's a really good question because, and it it's very pertinent because we've been, we've been discussing this a lot. Um, we, we grew so quickly, like we probably added, uh, you know, 60 doors since COVID began. Um, and, uh, I have now started looking, you know, a little bit outside of the, the, the markets that we, we usually operate in. And I, I think that I would be comfortable, um, investing out of province. Um, I, I'm gonna, I'm going to, uh, slam the landlord tenant board a little bit right now. Um, because this, this can be, if you do not select your tenants, uh, properly, or if you inherit the wrong tenants, which, which has been our problem in the past, we've inherited people that, uh, wanna stop paying their rent. This can be a very difficult province to do business in. Um, if you have somebody not paying their rent right now, we have, uh, we bought a, we bought a four Plex in north bay, uh, you know, not in February the February prior.
Speaker 1 00:34:23 So I think we're February, March, April, may, uh, we're we're in month 15 of, of one of our tenants not paying rent, you know, never has paid us a diamond rent. We, we bought the building and, and as it came out, um, this guy was delinquent on his rent. So I guess we could have theoretically sued the, the, the previous owner, cuz he didn't disclose everything. Right. Um, because he said this guy was paying, but he didn't. So, um, I know that there are a lot of people moving outside of the province because of the unfriendly landlord, tenant board, uh, lost and, and um, it's hard to get a hearing. Um, I'm 15 months into one I'm, you know, eight months. So I always have a few of these guys, usually people that I've inherited, uh, through the purchase of a building. So I know there are provinces and there's certainly lots of states with more, uh, landlord friendly laws and rules. Brilliant.
Speaker 0 00:35:15 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:15 So at, at this point I I'm, I am willing to look outside of province for that. Um, the price points have been getting higher and higher here. Like we we've been going north and north and no we're gonna be in the Arctic circle soon, man, like looking for deals <laugh> yeah. So, uh, uh, I know you St you can still do business here. Um, you can get a, a decent wholesale deal here, here, or there, or a good, uh, off, off market deal. But I know a lot of people are planting their money in Alberta, uh, new Brunswick's another big market, um, and down south, and these are people I know, uh, some, some people that, uh, you know, I I've talked to and, and they does seem like a lucrative move. So, um, moving some money out of province to a different province or particularly in the states, um, that could be on the horizon, but you know what, I will always, uh, have my eyes and ears open for deals around here.
Speaker 1 00:36:09 Um, and I don't think it's over, like, we are in a very transitory market right now. Um, and, and you have your finger on the pulse. I know as well. Yeah. Um, we have, you know, these interest rates, um, you know, people just can't afford as much house or they can't afford, uh, an, an extra income property as much. So I think it's going to, uh, be less competitive. And a lot of people are saying that, you know, that the prices are gonna come down. I don't think they're gonna come down that significantly, but even if we see it a, a five to 7% drop that kind of opens the door for me again. Um, it's, it's, uh, we, we qualify quite easily now cuz they look at your net worth, oftentimes when you're qualifying for these, these limited deals. Right? Yeah. So, um, I, I'm actually looking forward to a point in the future, uh, in the near future where it becomes less competitive. You're not getting 20 to 30 bids on, uh, you know, every single property. Um, so we've kind of taken our foot off the, the pedal a, a bit lately just to see, uh, what's gonna happen when this dust settles, because I think it's gonna take another two or three, maybe two or three months to, uh, to see what direction this market is actually gonna go in. Um, so I have a bit of a wait and see attitude, but I'm always, I'm always looking for a deal too
Speaker 0 00:37:26 Amazing. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, we're coming to the end here. Uh, we've been at it 30, almost 35 minutes, but uh, we usually close off, I got two parting questions for you and then we'll get the audience to, uh, uh, give them some information on how they can get a hold of you to, uh, through your brain or chat with you. But, uh, what is your, why, why do you do what you do Josh?
Speaker 1 00:37:55 Uh, my well it's my family actually. Um, yeah, so I, you know, I, I came from, uh, a family where my, my, my grandparents actually owned quite a bit of real estate. Um, my, my great, uh, sorry. Yeah, my, my great, great grandfather was actually Frank Johnson from the group of seven, the painters, uh, group of seven painters and his, his daughter went away. My grandmother, uh, was a Bracebridge person and she, she owned a, a gift store in, in Bracebridge and they also owned, um, a hotel endorse it and they, they owned, um, various pieces of real estate around uh Bracebridge and, um, they had, they had a really interesting, uh, life because they were, they were entrepreneurs and they were kind of always cutting deals and moving and shaking and going over to Europe and buying stuff from, for my, uh, my grandmother's, um, gift store.
Speaker 1 00:38:52 And they, they had such a cool and interesting life. And, and, uh, my father settled on a more conventional life. He was a school teacher as was my mother, but I always kind of looked to my grandparents as the model, like, you know, my, my grandfather sold real estate and he was in, he was involved, uh, you know, with, um, different commerce sports around town. And, um, I, I, I kind of thought that was a, a wonderful thing. And they passed down a wonderful, uh, family cottage, uh, in Muskoka that, that we still use. And, um, I, I, I kind of modeled my entrepreneurial entrepreneurial career after, uh, them and I really wanted stuff to pass down to my kids. And I also want the time to spend with my kids. Like my son is going into grade 11, so I've got him at home for another two years, and then he is off to university.
Speaker 1 00:39:44 He better be off to university <laugh> and my daughter is, is entering grade nine. So I've got her at home for four more years. So two things I want, you know, in, in this day and age, oh my goodness. I, I feel a, sorry for a lot of these young kids trying to get their foot theor in this housing market, um, you know, getting a down payment for, for a house, they they're gonna have to maybe get some help from their parents. Uh, maybe things are gonna get a bit better for them, but, um, I've always wanted to be able to help my kids, you know, uh, get their start if they want a house, uh, I can lend them some money or I can maybe can run a few of my rentals and, and, and make some money that way. So I, I, I will, you know, and when my time is up, uh, they're going to have a substantial portfolio and if they don't blow it, their kids will have it too.
Speaker 1 00:40:31 So, I mean, generational wealth is kind of my driving force. It's like this every day I wake up and I just think what a great opportunity I have to not only have a wonderful life and take my kids on vacations and have, you know, boats and CDOs and snowmobiles and, and all this wonderful lifestyle, which I worked my ass off for. <laugh>. Yeah. But, uh, you can pass it down to your kids. And I, you know, I don't want to give them everything on a silver platter platter, but I also, you know, if they're, if they're willing to, um, take on the responsibility and, and work for it, it's theirs. And, and that, that brings me great joy.
Speaker 0 00:41:08 Couldn't agree more. I pretty much, uh, I think we're a lot alike in that regard because, uh, my answer would be pretty much exactly the same where we only have, uh, my wife and I only have the one child. So, um, who's 21 years old now. So our child will obviously benefit quite generously as well. And, you know, my mindset too, is that generational wealth, you know, with all of our portfolio. Now, I think we're, we probably can cover off two generations, um, after our time is up, as you would say for, uh, you know, my daughter and, um, you know, one day her children and, uh, and so on. So yes, I, I couldn't agree more and yes, amazing. That brings me to the end, Josh. Um, it's been a slice, uh, tons of great information and, and amazing how you've scaled this with no JD money, no JD partners, which is pretty much the opposite of what we do.
Speaker 0 00:42:09 <laugh> but Hey, it works and you've been successful at it. And like, I've always said, everybody has their model. Everybody has their way of doing something. And like you have yours, we have ours. And yours has worked obviously very should. You've added 60 units, uh, you know, since COVID, which is very, very impressive as well, kudos to you and your business partner. And I want to thank you for spending, uh, these last 40 minutes with us on the mortal life and tell us, uh, tell my audience, how can people get ahold of you if they want to reach out to you and just chat or, or pick your reign, or who knows maybe do business one day.
Speaker 1 00:42:49 Certainly. Um, I think the best way to get in touch with, uh, with us would be through our Instagram page and it's invest north.ca. Um, we also have a website it's, uh, invest north.ca and, uh, we also, uh, we film some, uh, we're not regular posters to, to YouTube, but we've, we've posted some videos, uh, to adventures in landlording. And it's just us bringing a, uh, well, basically our camera phones to the work site and giving people, uh, a little taste of what we do. Some of it's funny, some of it's stung in cheek. Uh, some of it's just showing people what we've done, but adventures in landlording on YouTube and, uh, invest north do CA on Instagram. And, uh, people reach out to me all the time. Um, I've never really gone into coaching for dollars because I I've spent my entire adult life teaching. So I, I don't mind doing it here or there. I don't think I'm gonna roll out a course anytime soon, but I am more than willing to give people advice, point them in the right right direction and tell them what's worked for me.
Speaker 0 00:43:56 Absolutely. Cool. Thanks again, Josh, on being, uh, on episode 25 guests, um, and I can wish you guys continued success, um, and I'd love to, uh, Hey, we can always bounce stuff off each other as well, uh, moving forward and, um, yeah, enjoy the summer.
Speaker 1 00:44:19 Yes. And I think, yeah, after that long dark winter, we deserve it. <laugh> yeah. Thanks again. Uh, Adrian, I I've, you know, uh, once I, I discovered your material, I listened to it and there's some great, great, uh, episodes out there. I, I often listen to when I'm driving around, checking on stuff and, um, it, it's great to see your journey and you've had such interesting guests and I, I thank you for all the wonderful content that you put out to the world. Cheers. Appreciate it. Yeah. All right. All right. Take care.
